[jveritas]

The Vikings control the seas (extreme sarcasm). Get real. It is a totally insignificant war game. This sub will be long gone if it goes in a real fight with the US Navy.

[Ronin]

Get real yourself. The USN is good. Hell, they’re very good, but they’re not always the best in the game no matter what hoorah macho bull feces you want to throw out there.

State of the art diesel-electric boats are black holes to passive sonar. They are actually quieter than the water around them. A good driver, and this guy is obviously their varsity, can penetrate just about any escort screen if given sufficient time to position his boat.

Yes, they can be found with active sonar, and sometimes with MAD technology. But active sonar gives away more information than it collects.

The big kicker here is that a lot of countries, including China are building these new diesel-electric subs, and we are lying to ourselves if we think we know where they all are at all times. Just one of those boats, in the wrong place at the wrong time, can take out a CVN. Of course, the sub would probably be sunk shortly after he launches, but if the swap is a sub for an aircraft carrier, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone is willing to pay it.

ASW needs a great deal more attention than it is getting. I am encouraged about this report because it indicates that the brass is taking it seriously again.

[unkus]

This sub will be long gone if it goes in a real fight with the US Navy.

________________________________

Maybe so, but we could still lose a Carrier before it is “long gone”.

[OneVike]

This sub will be long gone if it goes in a real fight with the US Navy.

Pride always goes before the fall. Long before Rome feel, it lost its pride.

The way I see America, our pride is leading us to a path of ruin and destruction. I for one am glad that the military does not think like you, because they are spending the money it takes to figure out the problem before it becomes their defeat.

[R. Scott]

Long gone?
How will it be killed if it can’t be found?

[tanknetter]

Get real. It is a totally insignificant war game. This sub will be long gone if it goes in a real fight with the US Navy.

The thing about wargames is that they're usually structured to look at very specific scenarios.

CSGs have a multi-layered defense system. Think of multiple rings surrounding the CVN and extending out hundreds of miles. The space between the rings requires its own tactics and capabilities (from F/A-18s striking the SS's ports, to P-3s nailing them when they are snorkling a hundred or two miles out, to SSNs hunting them within the middle/outer defense rings to the SH-60s using MAD and dipping sonar within the inner defense rings) for addressing the threat.

The chances of an SS making it safely out of harbor and then into position to take a torpedo shot at a CVN are exceedingly small. But the USN still has to practice for a scenario where an SS DOES make it inside the outer defense rings. Which means setting up attack scenarios where the SS is inside the inner ring as an input into the wargame.

For all the "Foreign SS kills US CVN" articles, I've never read a single one where the scenario is an SS breaching the entire layered defense rings. It's always a situation where the wargame starts with the SS within 10-20 miles of a carrier, placing the carrier at an immediate disadvantage.

[Grunthor]

“Get real. It is a totally insignificant war game. This sub will be long gone if it goes in a real fight with the US Navy.”

I used to have a football coach that would think that was the most idiotic statement he ever read. Practice to win, play to win.

[IonImplantGuru]

The Vikings control the seas (extreme sarcasm). Get real. It is a totally insignificant war game. This sub will be long gone if it goes in a real fight with the US Navy.

What are your credentials, JV, to enable you to make such cavalier statements? I doubt you have any background or real knowledge of either submarine or anti-submarine operations, based on your statements so far.

I am a US Navy submarine vet, and keep up on developments in both areas. Trust me, the USN wouldn't have spent the money to bring the Swedish boat over to San Diego if they felt we were so damn invincible. Facts are that diesel-electric and AIP (air-independent propulsion) boats are harder to detect than other nuke boats and carry a weapons suite just as deadly. Yeah, they don't have the top speed and legs that our boats have ... but if they're around where and when we go into harm's way, it could be dicey for our side indeed.