Posted on 02/18/2010 1:59:08 PM PST by fight_truth_decay
I can not address strawman arguments of your creation.
Are you a teacher? ( Just wondering) Do you make your living directly or indirectly from the government schools?
If you do, I am **certain** that as a highly trained professional government teacher you would **never** use emotionally manipulative strawman arguments on any students in your charge. No, no, as a highly trained professional you would only reserve this dubious debating technique for those with the maturity to recognize it immediately.
Those who believes that government workers can make better life decisions than parents is arrogant, indeed
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That should read:
Those who believe that government workers can make better life choices than parents are arrogant, indeed!
One cannot measure knowledge by a poll.
I like it too. I hated high school so much that I would have tried to test out in eighth grade if anyone would have let me.
A third of the high school graduates, nationwide, need remedial work, stuff they should have mastered in high school. For the freshman at our local community college, it’s more like 40%. Explain to me how shaving two years off high school is going to improvethis state of affairs or, is the community college simply going to be a more expensive substitute for high school?
I said "Huh?" because you falsified my position.
I think the answer to your last question, is that the student would be required to foot the more expensive substitute. That’s what drives this.
Your comments about 40% needing remedial work, reflects my own view on this. As you state, reducing by two years the requirements to graduate high school will do nothing to improve our kid’s education.
All this does cause me to ask, what good will it do to ask what level of education people have achieved if high school is the answer, if there is one graduation after a full twelve years and another after only ten years?
I can see how you could read it that way. And perhaps I didn’t word it well enough to address you properly.
Look, if our twelfth graders today aren’t ready for college without remedial work, what chance have our tenth graders got to obtain engineering degrees in less time than it takes kids today.
They’ll have to take classes to get up to speed to enter an engineering program, and even then they will probably enter at a disadvantage compared to today’s graduates.
I’m not as convinced as you are the a tenth grade jettisoning will see our kids wind up entering the job market better prepared and sooner than our twelfth grade graduates do today.
Thanks for correcting me so I could address your point better.
My older son would probably have done well testing out at age 15 or 16 and starting college early. While I can’t boast that he was a wiz-kid who started college at age 12, he did start at 18, has maintained good grades, finished at community college and promptly enrolled at UD. He commutes an hour each way (to save money from living on campus), works PT, has helped pay for his car, insurance and personal expenses over the past 6 years. He plans on being a psychologist, working in private practice for awhile and then would like to participate in research and studies some day. He’s right where he should be, for his age and has done tremendously well.
My younger son, well, I’m sure he would have liked to get out of school early but he’s a ‘doer’, not a thinker. To plunge him into college at 16 would have been disasterous, not to mention a waste of money. He’s a smart kid but knows he’s not scholarly and is looking at a career where he can ‘do’ something (electrical work, carpentry, plumbing). He’s more technical and recognizes he won’t do well in an office setting.
the dumbing down of America...
It’s like chasing a roach around a kitchen table.
I have 2 children who used the PSEO (post secondary education option) starting in their jr yr. Both graduated with an AA degree about 3 weeks before getting their HS diploma. It is an excellent option and has been available for around 20 yrs here in MN.
When the first took this option in the late 90’s they had already changed from letting these kids take remedial classes to them having to pass the entrance exam in both areas. This option even includes the technical degrees like those in the building trades and some in health care.
The difference between regular college courses and the trades is if the class for something like building is full before the start of the year the HS student can be bumped out, that really doesn’t happen with regular college classes because they can always take find the same class open at another time or just take something else.
If you flunk out, you are out. and back in your HS and probably without enough credits to graduate with your class. So be very sure the young person you encourage to use this option really is mature enough to deal with the change, they no longer have teachers pushing them to study or do homework.
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Doughty One,
Did you read the article?
Leaving early is an option **only** for those who pass the board exam at the end of 10th grade. Those who choose not to take the test or fail the test would continue in high school.
Some students ( especially those who are hoping for admission to an elite college) may feel staying in high school is worth the effort.
The entire **purpose** of have a board exam is to **reduce** the need for remedial courses. The entire curriculum would be restructured so as to prepare students to pass this rigorous exam. Singapore was given as an example.
I hope this straighten things out for you.
**Please** read the article. As it is, I can barely respond to your comments because your posts badly misconstrue the arguments presented in the article.
I have **three** objections to our state implementing this program:
1) The “board exam” may be dumbed down.
2) If the exam isn't dumbed down I doubt many of our current government teachers could pass it.
3) Why do we need an expensive new “board exam” with gangs of teachers being trained to administer it? Isn't the GED exam comprehensive enough to prove competency? Simply allow any child of any age to take the GED. If they pass it, the government school should issue a formal diploma from their regularly assigned high school.
If a 10th grader can pass tests on the course work required for graduation at a 12th grade level then why shouldn’t that young person be able to try?
Why should an intelligent person have to sit in a class room bored out of their skull when they have already or could master the course work just by reading the materials?
Article in today’s “Bergen Record”. The town over from me. Very well-to-do, bright 8th grade kids. A teacher offered a course in philosophy, at 7:30 in the morning. Eighth graders getting 2 community collge credits in philosophy.
My grandson is considering the trade school part but has another year to go before making up his mind.
I don’t know how long this has been available here in WA but I personally feel it’s a great deal for those that are serious about it.
I think the difference between the PSEO and what is talked about in this article is that if a 10th grader tests out for early graduation, thus getting the diploma the hs age still minor child would probably have to pay for the course work in college or trade school.
Under PSEO since the young person has not graduated hs, but is taking course work with credit toward their hs diploma, the school system pays for the classes, high schools discourage kids from taking college classes because they lose the money for that kid, it goes toward the cost of the college classes.
I believe you’re probably right on that tho I haven’t talked to my daughter about how that works. Plus both my grandkids are in the homelink CAM program (don’t ask me what CAM stands for:) but I think the program is available at the regular HS also.
Don’t you find it just a bit suspect that half the class load for high school not being presented, the tenth graders are non the less thought to be able to pass what four year students were supposed to be able to?
Look folks, if tenth graders actually know everything twelfth graders should, then why don’t we provide two years of community college level materials to them at high school, and grant them associate degrees?
We can then eliminate community colleges and send all of them right off to the university environment.
We’ll see how that works out.
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