Posted on 03/07/2010 12:27:06 PM PST by Free ThinkerNY
It seems you’ve got an agenda or you’re being wilfully ignorant.
Easy one. They don’t use broken glass and no pain killers on males
and it is done in a sterile environment. Much different.
It seems the main arguments are that the surgery is done poorly with unsterile instruments at a late age.
So if that is the argument, then I assume that it would be ok if done by a professional doctor, in a sterile environment, at childbirth, with a focus on the procedure not affecting the girls ability to pee or have sex at a later age without pain.
Because after you have removed all of those arguments against the procedure, all you are left with is that the girl will never have an orgasm.
Dr. Bowers used to be a man, "she" bought the practice of the doctor who did "her" operation, and is now the US leader in such surgeries.
"She" is the high priest(ess) of the sex change cult in the US.
Didn’t know that, but not surprised.
Because the two procedures have about as much in common as clipping your fingernails and chopping your fingers off.
I am female and I can assure you, this is not true.
Uhm.... did you read the responses or just skim over them and pick the ones you felt you could handle?
Then you are one in a million. Literally.
More like one-in-ten.
Just plain awful.
FGM is not circumcision, it is the complete removal of most of the outer sex organ whcih leaves women in pain most of their lives. There is no comparision between circumcision and FGM.
Well I was so traumatized when I was cut that I couldn’t walk for a year.
Same here.
Left me unable to speak coherently, too.
Oh, brother!
The rest of my comment is to the posters here who defend the also ancient practice of amputating the male prepuce, non-consensually, as harmless or desirable, while condemning the non-consensual cutting of the female genitalia. To be perfectly clear, I also condemn female circumcision (mutilation/cutting).
by maine-iac7: male circumcision is more for hygiene and does not interfere with male 'enjoyment' nor give life long pain.
In America male circumcision was introduced as an anti-masturbation procedure; from a 1908 surgical textbook:circumcision is performed to aid the patient in overcoming the habit of masturbation, superfluous skin about the frenum should never be left, since it is most abundantly supplied with sensory nerves, and especially invites manipulation. It has continued as a medical ritual with "hygiene" as a rationalization. All the rationalizations for male circumcision have been used to promote female circumcision.
Female circumcised is to prevent women from having any pleasure during sex (the better to keep them from roaming) - and gives pain, often for the rest of their lives.
Both male and female circumcision rituals are ancient and apparently originated around Egypt...it is inaccurate to claim that the purpose of female circumcision is to "prevent women from any pleasure during sex." [bold added] In fact, it does not do so, from the long Wiki article:
The effect of FGC [Female Genital Cutting] on a woman's sexual experience varies depending on many factors. FGC does not eliminate all sexual pleasure for all women who undergo the procedure, but it does reduce the likelihood of orgasm (which may be the intended objective of the procedure). Stimulation of the clitoris is not solely responsible for the sexual excitement and arousal of a woman during intercourse; this involves a complex series of nerve endings being activated and stimulated in and around her vagina, vulva (labia minora and majora), cervix, uterus and clitoris, with psychological response and mindset also playing a role.[60][61]
Lightfoot-Klein (1989) studied circumcised and infibulated females in Sudan, stating, "Contrary to expectations, nearly 90% of all women interviewed said that they experienced orgasm (climax) or had at various periods of their marriage experienced it. Frequency ranged from always to rarely." Lightfoot-Klein stated that the quality of orgasm varied from intense and prolonged, to weak or difficult to achieve.[62]
A study in 2006 found that in some infibulated women, some erectile tissue fundamental to producing pleasure had not been completely excised.[63] Defibulation of subjects revealed that a part of or the whole of the clitoris was underneath the scar of infibulation. The study found that sexual pleasure and orgasm are still possible after infibulation, and that they rely heavily on cultural influences — when mutilation is lived as a positive experience, orgasm is more likely. When FGC is experienced as traumatic, its frequency drops. The study suggested that FGC women who did not suffer from long-term health consequences and are in a good and fulfilling relationship may enjoy sex, and women who suffered from sexual dysfunction as a result of FGC have a right to sex therapy.
A study by Anthropologist Rogaia M. Abusharaf, found that "circumcision is seen as 'the machinery which liberates the female body from its masculine properties'[64] and for the women she interviewed, it is a source of empowerment and strength".[65]
by Mmogamer: Well the foreskin is for the most part justs that,, skin. Obviously, I believe the males um sexual sensitive area is still intact and not harmed. If you cut off the clitoris.. well i guess thats kinda obvious what that does...*coughs* 7 posted on Sunday, March 07, 2010 3:45:53 PM
In terms of enervation and erotic sensitivity, the male prepuce and the female prepuce/clitoris have similar functionality. See text below. Male circumcision is the equivalent to a "Type 1" (the least radical) circumcision.
by Jack Black 2. MC does not prevent men from experiencing orgasm, as FGM typicall does, and is designed to do. The goal of MC is not the fundamental alteration of a basic function of the human body.
Neither MC nor FC (see above) "prevent" men and women from experiencing orgasm, both do and arguably have the purpose of altering a basic function of the human body, the experiencing of sexual pleasure. The male prepuce also has other important functions besides pleasure.
3. MC is typcially done to infants, who are not angry and traumitized by the experience (or at least not able to remember being angry and traumitized as adults). In contrast FGM is done at age 12, against the consent of girls who well remember the force and coercion used on them.
In Africa male circumcision is often done on boys, often by coercion. I've seen research that does show psychological impacts from the trauma of infant circumcision. If female circumcision is done on infants, would it be less objectionable?
4. MC rarely results in death or serious complications. FGM has much more frequent complications.
Male circumcision is done in modern US hospitals, with relative few complications (but they still occur) Female circumcision is typically performed by non-medical female relatives (though sometimes by medical professionals) who learned through tradition in non-sterile conditions. When female circumcision is done in medical clinics is it less objectionable?
5. MC may have some health benefits, particularly in cultures where frequent bathing is either not possible or not practiced.
Citation? If there are health benefits in cultures where people don't bath (Africa?) those are third world countries where circumcision, whether by traditional circumcisers or by the professional but often un-hygienic medical facilities are sources of infection. Governmental agencies are promoting male circumcision as an A.I.D.S. prevention measure, research (noted in the Wiki article) has shown that women who were sexually experienced who had female circumcision had about half the rate of A.I.D.S. as women who had not. (They may have had less sex, but the circumcised males in studies that show that circumcision reduces A.I.D.S. (and not all studies do) may have also had less sex.)
6. MC is a Western tradtion, thus people in the West consider it normal Few people in the Magrib consider FGM a terrible practice, it is normal there. 10 posted on Sunday, March 07, 2010 3:52:22 PM
Yep.
by A_perfect_lady I think because FGM is deliberately done to destroy the sex drive and is sometimes so extensive that they can’t even urinate normally. Circumsizing males is believed to help lower the risk of infections. That’s what I was told, anyway. 12 posted on Sunday, March 07, 2010 3:55:50 PM
See above. I don't know why so many people are eager to defend and perpetuate this barbaric practice. Perhaps because they've been victims themselves and have to see it as normal, or they've done to their own little boys. If it hadn't been done for thousands of years, and a new sect started amputating the prepuce of their baby boys, they would be arrested for the crimes of maiming and child abuse.
One must understand the nature and function of the structure that is amputated by circumcision in order to properly evaluate the effects of male circumcision. This chapter provides that information.
General Description
The prepuce traditionally has been described as a simple fold of skin,1 for which the purpose and function are unknown. This is inaccurate. In reality, the prepuce is a complex structure with multiple anatomical and physiological functions.2
The prepuce is a portion of the entire covering of the penis. It is specialized tissue, composed of skin, mucosa, nerves, blood vessels, and muscle fibers.2 It is anchored by the abdominal wall at the proximal end of the penis and at the proximal end of the glans penis. It is not attached to the shaft of the penis, so, after puberty, it is free to slide back and forth, everting and inverting as it does.3 The sliding/rolling back and forth is called the gliding action.3,4
A frenulum is found on the ventral side of the penis. The frenulum serves to tether a movable structure to a non-movable structure. The penile frenulum returns the foreskin to its normal protective forward position.2 Most men report that the frenulum is highly erogenous tissue.
Peripenic Muscle
In the skin of the penis, there is a sheath of dartos fascia muscle fibers — the peripenic muscle.2,3,5 The muscle fibers keep the prepuce snug against the glans penis.3 The fibers of the peripenic muscle sheath form a whorl at the tip of the prepuce, which act as a sphincter,3 especially in infants and children. The sphincter also serves to prevent inadvertent retraction of the prepuce. The peripenic muscle gives the prepuce great elasticity, allows it to stretch, and helps to return the prepuce to its forward, protective position after retraction.2 The elasticity of the prepuce plays an important role in the erogenous and sexual functions of the prepuce.
Immunology
The prepuce covers and protects the glans penis and urinary meatus. In most males, the prepuce protects the sterile urinary tract environment in infancy and maintains the moistness — beneficial to good health — of the mucosal surface of the glans penis throughout life.6 Fleiss et al. (1998) have identified immunological functions that help to protect the body from pathogens:7
The epidermis of the prepuce contains Langerhans cells that secrete cytokines,2 hormone-like low-molecular-weight proteins, which regulate the intensity and duration of immune responses.9 de Witte and colleagues (2007) report that the Langerhans cells produce langerin, a substance that provides a barrier to HIV infection.10
Innervation
The prepuce of the newborn male has extensive innervation. Winkelmann (1956) reported, “[t]he principal form of innervation of human newborn prepuce consists of a deep and superficial network of nerve fibres in the dermis.”11 Moldwin & Valderrama (1989) reported an extensive neuronal network in the prepuce.12
The prepuce of adult males is even more extensively innervated. Winkelmann (1959) described the prepuce as a specific erogenous zone with nerves arranged near the surface in rete ridges.13 Taylor et al. (1996) also found nerves near the surface in rete ridges and further described a concentration of nerve endings in a ring of ridged tissue just inside the tip of the prepuce near the mucocutaneous boundary, which he named the ridged band.14 The nerve endings in the ridged band are Meissner's corpuscles and Krause's end-bulbs.
The nerves of the penis, including the preputial nerves, supply sensory input to both the somatosensory and autonomic nervous systems by different routes.2 The sensory input to the somatosensory nervous system is supplied through the dorsal nerve of the penis, and the autonomic nervous system is supplied through the parasympathetic nerves, which run adjacent to and through the wall of the membranous urethra.
The prepuce is provided with an extensive vascular network to bring oxygen to support the heavy innervation.2,7,14
Several writers have commented on the sensitivity of the prepuce. Winkelmann (1956) wrote, “…it is a region of great sensitivity and possessed of an abundant nerve supply,”11 and later (1959) identified the prepuce as a specific erogenous zone.13 Falliers (1970) noted the “sensory pleasure associated with tactile stimulation of the foreskin.”15 A landmark study by Sorrells et al. (2007) of the fine-touch sensitivity of the penis finds that the areas most sensitive to fine touch are on the foreskin.16 Circumcision, therefore, amputates the most sensitive areas of the penis.
Sexual Function
The prepuce is primary, erogenous tissue necessary for normal sexual function.2 In adult life, the gliding action facilitates introitus4 and reduces friction and chafing during coitus.5 The movement and stretching of the prepuce during coitus stimulate the nerve endings in the prepuce, produce erogenous sensation, and eventually ejaculation.18,19 The presence of the prepuce tends to protect the corona of the glans penis from direct stimulation, helps to prevent premature ejaculation20,21 and contributes to female satisfaction.22 (See Chapter Six for a discussion of the sexual harm of prepuce excision.)
There are many different types of FGM (basically differing on how much is removed and what the woman is left with afterwards). Research the different types and the different long term effects of especially the most severe types. It’s not just an “inability to orgasm” when someone removes your penis/most of the vulva and then sews up what’s left, leaving you with a pinhole. Then tell me how much you enjoy it when a man who calls himself your husband rapes your pinhole. Keep in mind you have no cultural or legal ability to stop him, as it is his right to do that to you.
2. I was circumcised and it's never bothered me. In fact I prefer it, as much as one can prefer something one had no choice about. I've never been mad at my parents over it.
3. Given that it is a 4000 year old practice with deep roots in our culture I do not agree with equating it with FGM, which you and others seem to want to do. I see the reasons for it, and they are significant.
But in my estimation the cultural significance of it surpasses the new, liberal deconstruction of it. I am leary of such deconstructions, and broadly sympathetic to the tradition of it, especially for Jews.
I would not support a movement to make it illegal for young boys.
I am both a traditionalists and a conservative, and not given to lightly abandoning foundational aspects of our religion and culture simply because some leftists are opposed to it.
I do not have any sons, so don't know what I would have done had I to make that decision. (If I were convinced there were no health benefits, than probably not. My doctor says there are benefits. She is a baby-doc, too.)
Despite our seeming disagreement I very much appreciated your posting.
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