Koch brothers donate $1 million in support of Proposition 23

mercury news ^ | 09/04/2010 | Associated Press

[Willie Green]

It's the truth.
Market libertarians are filthy, parasitic vermin who foul their own nests.
Government regulation is required to prevent them from contaminating the living conditions of everybody else.

[Ditter]

I live in Houston on a very very busy street, the government regulation of auto exhaust already in place make this inner city neighborhood very livable. I could live any place I chose, on country property that we already own, or a high rise building 20 stories up, but I choose to live here. The worst contamination that we have to deal with is the beer cans, hamburger wrappers and cigarette butts we pick up regularly. I don't want a train coming down my street.

[Willie Green]

Study finds Houston's air quality among worst in the nation

[Ditter]

That article shows a picture of industry pollution. The train would have no affect on that. I remember another study that came out just before George W. Bush announced his run against algore, worst pollution in the nation. Guess what that was all about?

I have ridden trains in Paris and London, for the most part they were underground. Can't do that in Houston unless you want to drown a lot of people. If they could be underground I might be a little more inclined to go for them. Also if they went to where the people are. Sugarland,Conroe, Clear Lake but the ballpark to the medical center did it for me. I live close to I-10, why didn't they use the train track to bring people from west Houston into downtown if it was all about transporting people? They didn't , they tore the track up.

Years ago we went to a city meeting about the coming train. A city engineer named King got up and said “they wanted to make Houston just like NYC with high rise buildings along the train route”. It pi$$ed me off royally! Are you Mr. King?

[Willie Green]

If they could be underground I might be a little more inclined to go for them. Also if they went to where the people are.

Houstonians are better off with something they can't collide with:

The good news is: monorails are cheaper than tunneling underground, they don't have collisions with cars, trucks and buses on the streets, and their elevated guideway is less obtrusive than all the interstate highway overpasses we have all over Houston. It would blend in pretty easy.

[Ditter]

We won't collide with it if it wasn't taking up a whole lane of our busiest streets! Were you in Houston when there was a little piece of monorail and a train on display down the middle of Broadway near Hobby Airport? THAT is what Houston should have gone after and didn't. That is what we were told years ago and now we ended up with the traffic clogging monster that we have!

I have ridden monorails in Switzerland and they are great, too bad we don't have one. You didn't answer my question, Are you Mr. King?

[truthguy]

So, if unemployment drops below 5.5% you SUPPORT a carbon tax?

ABSOLUTELY NOT! It would be better if we didn't have AB32. It would be better if we could repeal AB32. But that's not politically possible. So the best we can do is to suspend AB32. I personally don't think CA's unemployment rate will fall below 5.5% for at least a decade if ever. So Prop 23 will essentially negate the negative effects of AB32 for the foreseeable future. It's the best we can do for now.

Pathetic. You just don't get how the energy racketeering scam in this state works. The whole global warming scare was cooked up by the owners of oil and gas companies in the first place. They want you to fund their investments in "alternative energy."

I'll forgive you for using the word pathetic because you don't know who I am. But I work in the Energy Industry and I know about the rackets. I know about the big money boys over on Sand Hill Road. They have a lot of money invested in green technology and now that they realize it really doesn't work very well and they want to get their money back. They want these fraud companies to go IPO so they can at least break even. They are frauds and crooks in my opinion. These Venture Capital boys are every bit as bad as the Wall Street guys who were up to their necks in the mortgage blow up that's led to this recession. I've known that the Global Warming thing was a fraud from the get go. I'm old enough to remember the scares about the onset of a new Ice Age. So there's probably nothing you can tell me about the scams that I don't already know.

That said Prop 23 is a good thing. Is is perfect? No. We would be better off if we would repeal AB32. But don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.

Now tell me how you plan to stop AB32 WITHOUT Prop 23.

[Willie Green]

Are you Mr. King?

Nope. I never even heard of him before.

[AuntB]

I need to study this issue, thanks.

[Ditter]

The city meeting when Mr King touted the train has to have been in the early to middle 80’s. The display monorail near Hobby Airport was in the early 60’s. I guess you weren't living in Houston then. I was so disappointed when they installed that beast down Fannin, which is the only place I ever encounter it.

[Carry_Okie]

That said Prop 23 is a good thing. Is is perfect? No. We would be better off if we would repeal AB32. But don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.

I'd rather California really feel the pain and then repeal it than to fix a piece of crap in place like this.

I'll forgive you for using the word pathetic because you don't know who I am. But I work in the Energy Industry and I know about the rackets. I know about the big money boys over on Sand Hill Road.

Small players compared to the people I'm talking about. These guys are new to the game and looking to get in. The NRDC folks have been at this for forty years.

So there's probably nothing you can tell me about the scams that I don't already know.

There quite apparently is. You clearly don't know who I am either.

[Carry_Okie]

Kalifornia kooks may be off basd with their global warming junk science, but at least they're headed in the right direction by trying to wean themselves off their wasteful addiction to fossil fuels.

Calling oil and gas "fossil fuels" is junk science; they are not. They are in essence mineral, and may be virtually inexhaustible in quantity. What we don't know is the rate at which the planet polymerizes the methane feedstock.

IMHO, Kalifornia would be best off building nuclear power plants to supply the energy for both electric passenger rail transit systems AND desalination plants to supply fresh water from the sea.

Inasmuch as I am a fan of nuclear, they are not the massive control freak plants of which you dream. Those units are too costly, line losses are too great, and they are attractive targets. Small nuclear reactors can be installed reliably on a neighborhood basis, a system that is so redundant as to be indestructible.

Moreover, at that point one could power automobiles inductively via the pavement and have no need for the costly, inflexible, corrupt, and extremely hazardous centralized transportation control systems of which you dream. Trains are just a bad idea Willie, as are the Sustainable Development real estate racketeering systems that go with them, never mind the environmental damage they do.

[Carry_Okie]

bonk

[Nitehawk0325]

You're probably correct truthguy. But the way the liberals are in this state, prop 23 will pass and they will do any damn thing they want to anyways. Since when does a law stop the liberals from doing what they want.?

[palmer]

Let me fix what you said:

...but at least they're headed in the right direction by trying to wean themselves off their wasteful addiction to fossil fuels free market energy

[Willie Green]

Let me fix what you said:

No. Keep your stinking keyboard off my words.
There is nothing wrong with what I said and it doesn't need "fixing".
Besides, all you'd do is screw it up anyway.

to wean themselves off their wasteful addiction to fossil fuels free market energy

Aaarrrrggghhh PALMER you incompetent IDIOT... you see what you've done???
There hasn't been any "free market energy" in our nation ever since the first regulated electric utilities were created a hundred years ago.

Now go on and get out of here...
and quit trying to "fix" things that you obviously don't know jack-squat about, you pinhead.

...but at least they're headed in the right direction by trying to wean themselves off their wasteful addiction to fossil fuels.

There... that's better!
Just like I had it to begin with,,,

[HiTech RedNeck]

Then keep your stinking words off our screens

[Willie Green]

Here's where HiTech RedNeck stands on a few hot issues.
Abortion:
"Gay" rights...
Gun control
The WOD:
Jesus Christ:

HiTech RedNeck is a fool to associate with laisezz-faire market-libertarian atheists.
They WILL ALWAYS betray his social conservative principals in the global marketplace.
In fact, HiTech RedNeck has already started slipping down the slippery slope, finding conditional approval for marketing substance abuse, sexual perversion and abortion.

You are not a conservative.

[palmer]

From the initiative: Requires State to abandon implementation of comprehensive greenhouse-gas-reduction program that includes increased renewable energy and cleaner fuel requirements, and mandatory emission reporting and fee requirements for major polluters such as power plants and oil refineries, until suspension is lifted

You like to play the "those dirty fossil fuels" tune, but the plain language of the measure is to suspend regulation of greenhouse gases. Thanks to global warming wankers like you, Koch Industries has now been targeted by the EPA who wants to close a Koch refinery in Texas. Funny that no other refineries in other states have been targeted. Koch supplies products based on crude oil to the market (the free market). They are fighting back because global warming wankers like you got a toe hold against them in California which needs to be eliminated. I support them wholeheartedly having researched the issue for a decade and had no major changes to my conclusion that "catastrophic" warming is not going to happen.

[Willie Green]

Thanks to global warming wankers like you,

I don't need junk science to prove that the industry has a very long and real history of polluting the environment and endangering public health unless regulated by government.