Posted on 02/02/2012 8:32:32 PM PST by WesternCulture
“That small country and its army today rightgeously are respected worldwide.”
By who, exactly? Some small island nation somewhere? When the world needs a super power they call the US, the big boys. We finished off Germany in WWII and Japan, too. Where exactly where the Swedes during all this? The Swedes were cowards sitting by while their neighbors were being slaughtered by the Nazi, that’s where. Respected by no one. Cowards of the world.
- No, my Sweden didn’t do much in terms of field operations during last century.
The underlying reasons to this fact could be discussed elsewhere.
However, Sweden of today is way ahead of its competitors in the area of stealth submarine technology as well as stealth naval engineering in general.
This is my point.
Not that Napoleon Bonaparte was Swedish or that we won WW2.
You have no idea what your subs can do....we won’t tell you, that’s classified. You pussies wouldn’t fire a shot anyway to save your asses. We’ve already taken your good looking blondes and the muslims are having their way with the rest of what we left. Your cars suck and so do your airplanes. You’re proof the only thing you idiots know how to do is drink and talk smack. You cowards should be ashamed of even having a military since you let Europe suffer and be slaughtered in WWII while you stood by. F****** cowards!
“So my point was that Sweden had to play a careful game to stay independent in those terrible times”
I apologize for overly patriotic posts of mine above.
- Yes, we had to tread carefully as our sweet neighborhood no longer looked the same.
Today, if you go to Denmark, you’ll experience paradise; people are so nice, well educated and courteous. There is order everywhere.
20 years ago, I felt sorry upon visiting them and for people having to live in that country.
Feel free to hate us.
That strategy of an enemy we know how deal with.
(But America is not an enemy from our standing).
Inferiors never appreciate Viking onslaughts.
But you got your message through alright!
You hate us.
Haha!
We don’t have time for that.
Let’s be honest here.
Sweden sold iron ore to the Nazis, but Britain and America
1. Supported Nazi Germany (By selling fuel to the Luftwaffe)
2. Refrained from destoying Stalinism when given the chance.
I thought that’s wehat I said. I guess I didn’t put it as clearly as I thought.
Sweden, in WW II was abysmal. They refused to join Finland in an alliance when Stalin was leaning on them in 1939 [although, in fairness a number of Swedes fought as volunteers in finland]. They shipped Germany all the iron ore the Germans wanted. They made no use of that lever to help, say, Norway when the Germans attacked it, principally to guarantee the iron ore kept coming. As I noted before, they allowed German troop trains to transit Swedish territory in the run up to BARBAROSSA.
About Sweden’s only contribution to the Allies’ cause was the Swedish cruiser Captain who spotted the BISMARCK and PRINZ EUGEn during their initial move out of the Baltic for the RHINE EXERCISE in 1941, and passed that information along to the British NavalAttache in Stockholm.
From a moral point of view, Sweden should have behaved way differently during WWII than we did.
But if we actually had shut our eyes to the grim realities of that time, we probably wouldn’t have existed as a sovereign nation by today.
If you were the PM of Sweden back in 1939 and onwards, what decisions would you have made provided you, primarily, were looking to the interests of the average Swede (which would have been what your job was all about, for natural reasons)?
I dont think you understand US strategy. You reference Vietnam and WW2 as examples. The US would have no need to use ground forces on Sweden, like in Iraq. They would be no ground war at all. What would happen is like I said. Your air assets and defenses would be destroyed as would your entire navy. Then you would be blockaded by sea, while anything that takes off in your airspace would we shot down, and strategic assets would be bombed. Sweden would eventually sue for peace as life would get very very uncomfortable for them. Thats what would happen.. The EU couldnt do jack either because they would fear a US nuclear response.
First, I would have considered geography and analyzed the ptential reality of threats Sweden faced:
Germany: Powerful military machine. Incapable of crossing open water to invade an enemy. Threat risk: moderate
USSR: Military machine hamstrung by officer corps purges, dissolution of armored/mech units. Navyot a great threat. Air Force: obsolescent. Geographic access: Overland, via Finland. Threat risk: moderate
Sweden: Interior Lines with Norway and Finland. Good defensive terrain. Good rail network for moving troops
Then you look at bargaining chips,e.g iron ore, manufacturing, etc.
What would I have done? Bolstered the military, formed an alliance [mutual defense pact with Norway, Finland and, maybe, Denmark. I could also count on the Germans keeping the Bear away from the North to guarantee the iron ore.
- How would you go about destroying something you can't even detect?
We're from separate sides of the Atlantic Ocean, not separate universes.
The victory you seem to take for granted sounds like a theoretical office desk product coming straight out of Pentagon.
Can't you come up with something better than that, Goliath?
“The EU couldnt do jack either because they would fear a US nuclear response”
- Last time I checked the EU too disposed of nuclear weapons, so what's your big point?
Guess I should apologize for sounding like I'm wishing to insult the US and her armed forces. Believe me, I sure don't.
You, on the other hand, owe an apology to common sense.
Though brief, your response provides a sensible and competent analysis of the situation.
But I disagree, at least to some extent.
- Regarding a defense pact with Denmark and Norway;
Allying our forces with the defenses of Denmark and Norway would have been a move in the right direction from a moral point of view. The only trouble was that these nations barely had any defenses at all at that time.
Regarding the British threat;
The threat of British attacks directed against our mines in Lapland was heavily reduced by Germany’s occupation of Norway and Denmark in 1940. As a consequence of this “fait accompli”, Sweden was tied (even) closer to Nazi Germany, both politically and economically, although our security - ironically enough - gained from this sinister development.
- Regarding the role and importance of Laponian mines;
At the time when the Red Army was closing in on Berlin and the Allies were bombing most urban areas of Germany on a 24/7 basis, there would have been little point in attacking Sweden from either of those sides and especially
targeting the mines in Lapland as Nazi Germany, among other reasons, were getting iron ore from other parts of the World. In fact, Germany was even getting substantial deliveries of iron ore originating from other SWEDISH sources as mines in CENTRAL Sweden also were feeding the Nazi war machine.
- Regarding the Nazi threat;
Concerning the German threat, Swedes and Swedish organizations in almost all parts of society had wide experience of cooperating with our big southern neighbor. We disapproved of the Nazi regime, but not of the Germans so to say.
Furthermore, economical isolation was no option. We had to survive in some way. In order to do so, we felt we were forced to side with either the one dictatorship or the other.
- Regarding the Soviet threat;
Contrary to how we perceive of Germany, Russia is viewed as a sworn, historical enemy of our nation. Relations didn’t exactly improve by the Russian Revolution and Soviet’s attacks on Finland.
There also was reason to believe the Kreml would not let go of Finland even after peace again was established in Europe at large, even if the Soviets won the war against Germany. The Nazi occupation, on the other hand, was viewed as being temporary.
- Conclusion;
IMO, Sweden chose the right strategy during that era, not as a Scandinavian neighbor of Norway and Finland, not as a moral member of the World Community, but as a small nation wishing to survive the horror of being squeezed in between hundreds of million Germans and Russians gone mad and wishing to tear each other as well as everything in their way apart.
However, at the end of WW2, Sweden should have stopped all shipments to Nazi Germany earlier than we actually did and we also should have took part in liberating Denmark and Norway by military means (even though our reluctancy to send troops there could be explained by Soviet’s continuous attacks on Finland).
Diesel subs have to come up for air eventually, and are slow. You have a tiny navy and it will lose and lose badly to the US Navy in all out total war. The P-8 Poseidon can detect it. ;)
We just trained with your sub to get ready for chinas more noisy diesel ones. Like I said it was training. Once all your logistical assets and defenses are destroyed you are pretty much doomed.
Diesel subs have to come up for air eventually, and are slow. You have a tiny navy and it will lose and lose badly to the US Navy in all out total war. The P-8 Poseidon can detect it. ;)
We just trained with your sub to get ready for chinas more noisy diesel ones. Like I said it was training. Once all your logistical assets and defenses are destroyed you are pretty much doomed.
America is technologically underdeveloped compared to us and we both know it.
I and Jock Ewing probably could bond and get to know each other over a fine glass of hard liquor.
But not you and I,because you have not dared to take a close look at yourself and begun behaving like a true patriot.
One more thing;
“Diesel subs have to come up for air eventually, and are slow.”
Do you seriously believe your insight into the diesel engine could hinder us from taking out the Eastern Seaboard?
Hate sounding like someone hating the US, but be it fair or not, there is no such thing as a technologically inferior nation holding the upper hand in a game.
Umm nope. We have the most advanced fighter jet,bombers, the most advanced radar on the planet(AESA, yes we designed it), air craft carriers, have sent men into space on our own, been to the moon, have probes all throughout the solar system, spy satellites, developed your silly operating system on your pc, and your CPU’s, and graphics cards. Now how are you technologically superior? You arent, and have bought into the anit-US euro idiocy. Hubris is always euros downfall. They are clueless. All you have is a diesel electric AIP sub (weak ass flying saabs), and we dont build them because we build nuclear ones to have long term defense against major powers like china and russia. You cant take out the eastern seaboard you have no nukes. A conventional strike on US assets is suicidal. The US navy and air force is huge, Swedens navy is tiny. You socialist have defeated no one and were hitlers bootlickers and still are germanys bootlickers.;) Now go pound your deluded socialist chest elsewhere because you would get owned badly and you know it.
anit=anti
Typos, need edit key.
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