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To: PreciousLiberty
F-22 is now the less expensive alternative

The F-22 is NOT the less expensive alternative. Unit flyaway costs for the last F-22 was around $180 million, but that did not include the development costs. Adding the development costs over 187 airframes averages out to around $350 million per aircraft average procurement cost.

8 posted on 02/29/2012 6:03:55 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: Yo-Yo

I find the fly-away cost at $152.5M per copy, with the total weapons system cost per jet at $188M (FY2012 proposed budget, http://www.saffm.hq.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-110211-038.pdf). While we stopped producing the jet, FY12 budget numbers are included in the budget docs as accounting details become more specific.

Regardless, selling the F-22 overseas would literally take an act of congress beyond the usual FMS approval processes. The Boland Amendment, passed when the F-22 was authorized, stipulated the F-22 was to be internal to the US, only, and therefore prohibited from foreign sales.

As a complicating factor for foreign military sales (FMS), the F-22 was not designed with FMS protections and limitations. Cost estimates to modify the source-code to allow export run to $500m and up (total cost, not cost per jet).

This lug, added to the total weapons system cost truly make it unaffordable to most all allies. . .even the US.

From an original purchase plan of over 700 jets, we only acquired 187 jets-—and that number includes 6 jets to be used as test aircraft and 2 jets for RDT&E.

Sad thing, too, as the F-22 is a spectacular jet.


11 posted on 02/29/2012 6:52:36 AM PST by Hulka
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To: Yo-Yo

Oh, forgot to add the F-35 unit flyaway cost is estimated at roughly $89M per jet with total weapons system cost at $95M per jet. . .if you believe the cost estimates and if we hold to the current acquisition number of jets. Currently, FY12, unit flyaway cost is listed as $151M and total weapons system cost is $192.

So. . .yes, if we base the numbers on today’s cost, the F-35 is more expensive than the F-22. . .but that is an accounting trick, only, and not a true representation of the cost.

The F-35 is less expensive if we look at the total cost per jet after the buy is complete, not at today’s cost spread over few jets.


12 posted on 02/29/2012 7:00:54 AM PST by Hulka
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To: Yo-Yo
"The F-22 is NOT the less expensive alternative."

That entirely remains to be seen. Actually the flyaway cost for the last buy of F-22s was about $140 million per plane.

The current flyaway cost of the various F-35 models is running $122 million, $150 million, and $139.5 million for the A, B and C variants respectively. Note that these are not the final production costs, because the F-35 is still under development, and the cost will almost certainly rise from there.

It's silly to worry about the cost of the F-22 program, that is a sunk cost. On the other hand, the F-35 program is still ongoing, and has an extensive history of delays and rising costs.

But fine, I'll amend my statement - for about the same price as the F-35, we could be buying far more capable aircraft which are operational now. In a sane world, we'd buy a few hundred more F-22s and a few hundred less F-35s.

14 posted on 02/29/2012 8:20:38 AM PST by PreciousLiberty (Real Hope - Santorum '12!!!)
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To: Yo-Yo
Unit flyaway costs for the last F-22 was around $180 million

WAS. And if you have to start the line back up again then you have to do a good bit of development. Some of the electronics are probably obsolete. Yes, already, things change fast. Obsolete does not mean they are not still effective but it does mean you might not be able to buy more. So you buy something similar.... but first you have to pay engineers to test or update software to make sure the new stuff works. On a plane as complicated as the F-22 all that adds up very very fast.
23 posted on 02/29/2012 9:58:33 AM PST by TalonDJ
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