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To: rollo tomasi

So you think that president Reagan woke up one morning and told the guards to not keep a magazine in their rifle?

You repeatedly keep confusing “going in soft” the larger military operations, with having the guards at the gate not put a magazine in their rifles.

You also keep thinking that was the only problem with the Marine security.


74 posted on 11/26/2012 10:26:14 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischers successful run in Nebraska)
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To: ansel12
Read Admiral Long’s conclusion detailed a lot more reasons than unloaded magazines, namely the whole operation itself which Pres. Reagan green lighted. The whole operation was a cluster f* of confusion and incompetence, starting with the top of the Executive Branch.

Apparently you are in the mindset that Reagan, who ordered the deployment, absolved. I will leave you to your own delusions.

“The Rules of Engagement
Until 23 October the MAU virtually operated on ROE that limited the right to shoot back unless the hostile force could be clearly identified.13 Even as the climate in Beirut changed, starting in April 1983, and Marines became the subject of ever more frequent attacks including heavy shelling by what was assumed to be Syrian artillery-122mm mortars, RPG-7s (rocket propelled grenades) from various militia, and snipers-it was up to the combined amphibious task force commander to formally authorize return fire-hence the Can’t Shoot Back Saloon.14

The actual language of the ROE was exceptionally complex. The reality in the field was, “don’t shoot back unless you know at whom you are shooting.” Some days this was truly bizarre. Near the Beirut University library a sniper operated from a minaret, taking occasional shots at the Marines of Weapons Company, 1/8 who used the roof of the library as an observation post. This went on for weeks.”

http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/beirut-1983-have-we-learned-lesson

I hope you do not criticize Obama on his ROEs since you think a Commander-in-Chief is immune from operations and separated from the Chain. Politics of war, whether by Repubs or Democrats, get a lot of good people killed in the name of trying to limit collateral damage/International incidences. Either go in hard or not at all. Confusion starts at the top because one false move killing innocents will lead to an occupational execution (Commanders CYA while those under them are sitting ducks). The mission and ROEs need to be made as clear as possible and Commanders Pre-absolved from any collateral damage in which self-defense/broken perimeters/non-compliance of locals cause casualties. The one doing the ordering (Reagan who ORDERED the deployment) is the one who should shoulder the blame. Failure to give clear cut orders/mission objectives along the Chain is wrong if your a Republican or a Democrat.

98 posted on 11/27/2012 7:31:05 PM PST by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians.)
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