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List: The Obama Shutdown (file)
Nachumlist ^ | 10/8/18 | Nachum

Posted on 10/09/2013 8:55:23 AM PDT by Nachum

The Obama Shut Down

10/8/2013

President Obama Admits Real Reason Why He's Been Rejecting GOP Funding Bills

Military chapel closed in Georgia: 'Shutdown: No Catholic service till further notice'

Priest: Obama Admin. Denied Mass to Catholics

Obama Warns "No Magic Bullets", Exploring "All Default Contingencies"

Deja vu... Obama repeats the condemnation of striking workers....again

Obama: Republicans Using 'Extortion' On Debt Limit

Obama Says He Will Negotiate Once G.O.P. Ends 'Threats'

'Gestapo' tactics meet senior citizens at Yellowstone

Armed Guards Kick Senior Citizens Out of Yellowstone Park

Digging In: Obama calls Boehner to say won´t negotiate, plans to make statement

Exclusive Gyms For Members Of Congress Deemed 'Essential,' Remain Open During Shutdown

Department of Defense Halts 'Death Gratuity' Payments to Families of Fallen Troops During Shutdown

Military death benefits denied to families of fallen troops

A million vets are coming to DC to demand their monuments be opened

'Shutdown' Day 7: Government Buys $47,174 Mechanical Bull

Runner fined $100 at Valley Forge amid shutdown

Video: Veterans arrested at Vietnam War memorial in NYC

Veterans' Affairs office to lay off 7,000

NIH Stops Therapy Dogs From Visiting Sick Children

Blue Ridge inn forced to throw out food after shutdown closure

10/7/2013

Obama Throws Reid Under the Bus: Hey, That Guy's In Charge of All of This, Not Me

Get your fiscal house in order: China warns US as superpower expresses concern for $1.3tn of investments  'Clock is ticking', says Chinese minister, as US fails to break deadlock over government shutdown and fast-approaching 'debt ceiling' deadline

 Obama Said Monday Willing To Talk, End Partial Government Shutdown

Obama Tells Federal Employees He'll "Keep Working With Congress" to Reach a Deal

Obama demands quick House vote on shutdown

Park Service OKs immigration reform rally on 'closed' National Mall

Government Shuts Down 22 Privately Operated Campsites in N.H.

Ooops... Amber Alert site back up... and Michelle Obama's "Let's Move" is still up too

White House official says Obama would accept short-term agreement on debt ceiling

Americans cross Obama's parkway barriers

FEC Has 4 'Essential' Employees on Staff of 339

The List: Unnecessarily Shut Down By ObamaTo Inflict Public Pain

10/6/2013

Amber alert website down due to government shutdown.... but Michelle Obama's "Let's Move" is still up

Obama Doesn´t Rule Out Using 14th Amendment To Raise The Debt Limit

Violators visiting closed National Parks could be fined $50

Obama's Golf Course Has Been Spared from the Shutdown, The base grocery store- closed.

Shutdown meltdown: Elderly residents kicked out of private Lake Mead homes; 60 families affected

Treasury Was Open for Business on 3rd Day of 'Shutdown:' Issued $106B in New Debt

Jack Lew Gets Grilled by Chris Wallace Over The Shutdown & Obamacare - Fox News Sunday 10-6-13

John Boehner HEATED Debate with George Stephanopoulos WILL NOT PASS CLEAN CR ABC #thisweek

Obama Doesn't Rule Out Using 14th Amendment To Raise The Debt Limit 10/14/13

Obama: "I Won’t Violate The Constitution, Unless You Make Me…" (usurp power from congress)

Obama admin allows government union reps to work during shutdown

Sessions: Obamacare Built On An Accounting Fraud

2006 - Obama Voted Against Raising Debt Limit

Amber alert website down due to government shutdown.... but Michelle Obama's "Let's Move" is still up

10/5/2013

NBC: Police Remove Vietnam War Veterans at Memorial Wall

Iwo Jima Memorial Closed, Barricades Erected...Vets Break Through

Obama to GOP: 'If You're Being Disrespected, It's Because of That Attitude You've Got'

Obama Explains Difference Between Him and Ted Cruz in AP Interview (Video)

Obama on Cruz: attention-seeker at fault in shutdown; Cruz says the president is "playing games"

US Shutdown Cut In Half After Pentagon Recalls 400,000 Workers: Half Of All Furloughs

Feds Try to Close the OCEAN Because of Shutdown

Priests Threatened with Arrest if they Minister to Military During Shutdown

Pentagon ordering most of its furloughed civilian employees back to work despite shutdown

10/4/2013

Carney can’t cite any actions by Obama to ease shutdown impact

White House disavows White House quote celebrating government shutdown

White House asking for sad shutdown stories

Park Rangers Ordered to 'Make Life Difficult' During Shutdown

WWII Memorial Barricade Wired Shut

Obama Scare on Debt Limit: 'The Whole World Will Have Problems,' But, 'There Will Be No Negotiations'

Senior Admin. Official: 'We Are Winning...It Doesn't Really Matter to Us' When Shutdown Ends

Obama cancels Asia trip to stay in D.C. and not negotiate on shutdown

After Shutdown: Administration Gives $445,000,000 to Corporation for Public Broadcasting

Joe Biden backs park ranger who stopped vets at WWII memorial

Obama: 'No winning when families don't have certainty'

Xi Jingping has "the floor to himself" as Obama cancels Asia tour

10/3/2013

WI Gov Scott Walker Defies Feds, Keeps Parks Open

White House Ordering Hundreds of Privately Run, Privately Funded Parks to Close

Senate Democrats block reopening of NIH, national parks Shutdown positions hardening on both sides

Obama: Wall Street should be worried

Intelligence director warns shutdown could help enemies recruit US spies

State Department: US government shutdown could threaten military aid to Israel

Obama blames Republican 'obsession' for government shutdown

Obama: I Have Bent Over Backwards Working with the GOP

Picture: Guard stands at Lincoln Memorial to stop visitors

Boehner: Obama said 'he will not negotiate'

 Barrycades: Feds Try to Shut Down Privately Owned Mount Vernon

Anarchy at Yellowstone: 'Road Closed' sign knocked over, thrown aside

Founding Fathers' Tavern Closed by Government Shutdown

 Obama Rewrites Debt-Limit History

US Banks Stuffing ATMs With 20-30% More Cash In Case Of Panicked Withdrawals

Government postpones jobs report amid shutdown

Jobless Claims Beat For 5th Week In A Row But Continuing Claims Surge Most In 11 Months

Non-Manufacturing ISM Tumbles, Worst Print Since June, Employment Index Has Biggest Drop Since 2009

Sikorsky furloughs 2,000 amid shutdown (CT)

No Sunday Mass at Quantico If Government Shutdown Continues

Shutdown forces West Point to combine classes

OBAMA's message to the MIlitary, 10-1-2013

Air Force Grounds Squadrons Of Fighter Jets, Drones Due To Shut Down

10/2/2013

Obama invites congressional leaders to White House for shutdown talk

House Committee: Obama Selectively Closed Most Popular Tourist Memorials

Barry-cades confirmed: Park Service says Obama admin ordered closure of World War II Memorial

Shutdown: National Park Service Closes Self-Sustaining Colonial Farm Hasn't Supported Since 1980

US govt shutdown: Germany, UK issue 'travel warning' to America, Obama cancels Asia trip

Obama shortens Asia trip amid shutdown

Park Service Workers Erect WWII Barricade

World War I Memorial Closed, 'Except for 1st Amendment Activities'

Monuments and memorials remained open during previous shutdown

1,350,000 'Essential' Federal Government Employees Continue to Work

91% of the IRS Furloughed

Harry Reid’s Office Leaks Boehner Office Emails

US army chief: Shutdown ' significantly' harming day-to-day military operations

Obama: Raising Debt Ceiling 'Does Not Cost Taxpayers a Single Dime'

Sikorsky furloughs 2,000 amid shutdown (CT)

Over 93% of EPA Employees Considered 'Non-Essential'

Michelle Obama Can't Tweet after Government Shutdown of her 16 Assistants

10/1/2013

Obama 'certainly did not' facilitate shutdown, White House claims 

No Compromise: House Democrats Kill GOP Proposal to Fund Veterans Services, National Parks Without Touching Obamacare

Obama Tells Republicans to 'Reopen the Government'

Obama admin. knew about WWII veterans' request and rejected it

WWII Vets Knock Over Shutdown Barrier to Visit Memorial

Shutdown: Biden Still Gets 12 Staffers; Obama 129

Labor Dep't: No Unemployment Data During Shutdown

9/30/2013

White House Orders Government Shutdown To Go Ahead

Obama to troops: You deserve better than dysfunctional Congress

Obama: "I Should Not Have To Offer Anything" To GOP…

Jay Carney Mocks Ed Henry When Pressed on Obama's Refusal to Negotiate With Republicans

Cruz: Obamacare is Nightmare and a Train Wreck. We Should Shut it Down, Not the Government

'Blatant extortion': The White House slings blame, refuses to negotiate, as midnight approaches with little hope of avoiding an Obamacare budget stalemate

Obama to Congress: 'Knock it Off'on Budget Brinkmanship

Essential: Barack Obama and the Strategy of Manufactured Crisis (9-28-2008)

9/29/2013

House Hearing Room Bursts Out Laughing at Obama's 'Red Line' on CR

Ted Cruz FULL Meet The Press Interview On Defunding Obamacare w David Gregory

House sends stopgap to Senate hours before shutdown (Video)

Obamacare's Failures Are Causing Democrats To Become Unhinged

White House threatens to veto 'reckless and irresponsible' House spending bill

The Government Shutdown Looms: A Q&A On What Happens Next

White House: Obama will veto House shutdown bill

Shutdown looms larger after GOP move on Obamacare

House stands firm against Obamacare, Senate won't budge. Shutdown looms

Nancy Pelosi absent for CR vote

Obama golfed as Congress debated

Obama: Republicans would own government shutdown

Hagel calls govt shutdown threat 'shortsighted' ('we will have a country that's ungovernable')

9/25/2013

Ted Cruz's filibuster on Obamacare is 4th longest in Senate history

9/23/2013

Obama 'likely' to meet with congressional leaders this week

9/21/2013

Obama calls Boehner, rules out debt negotiations

Obama struggles with debt talk at Ford plant: 'If we don't raise the debt ceiling, we're deadbeats'

Obama: US will be 'banana republic' if GOP forces default

Obama Calls Congress 'Banana Republic'--He Should Know

Obama: Republicans 'trying to mess with me'

 


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: barrycades; down; list; obama; operationwhipcracker; shut
Just a file to explain how we got where we are now. 9 days of the Obama Shut Down, and counting.
1 posted on 10/09/2013 8:55:23 AM PDT by Nachum
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To: All

 

Obama Scandals By Subject

The Obama Shutdown

Obama Attacks the 1st Amendment      Obama and the IRS      The Gunwalker Scandal

Obama vs The 2nd Amendment    Benghazi-Gate   Obama vs. Your Privacy

Obama and Agenda 21       The Obama "Dead Pool"      The Clinton "Dead Pool"

     The Boston Marathon Massacre   Sandy Hook Massacre       Socialists/Communists in the White House    

Obama and Israel - Year 1 ...Year 2 ...Year 3 ... Year 4  ... Year 5

Goldman Sachs personnel in the ObamaWhite House             Obama and the Muslim Brotherhood

Obama records which have not been released                 

 Gays and Lesbians who currently are in the Obama White House           Is Obama Gay?          Obama and Derrick Bell

A List of Obama Czars (in alphabetical order)          The  Solyndra Scandal

Obama Ethics, Year 1           Obama Ethics Year Two           Obama Ethics, Year 3          

   Obama Ethics, Year 4                  Obama Ethics, Year 5        

  Cass Sunstein Olympics        Obama Audio and Video        Michelle Obama's attendants and their salaries

Elena Kagan Mania          Van Jones "Laugh-a-Thon"        Obama and Eric Whitaker

Obama and Egypt             The Berwick Chronicles            Obama Voter Fraud

Obama and TARP        Sestak-Gate        A Brief Time Line of events of Watergate and Monica Lewinsky vs. Gunwalker

     Scanner-Gate        Rosen-Gate       JournOlist/Names      British Petroleum-Gate

Obama VS. The U.S. Military

Nachumlist

 

2 posted on 10/09/2013 8:56:20 AM PDT by Nachum (Obamacare: It's. The. Flaw.)
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To: Nachum

Bookmark.


3 posted on 10/09/2013 8:57:56 AM PDT by The Cajun (Sarah Palin, Mark Levin, Ted Cruz......Nuff said.)
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To: Nachum; All

“Generally, dereliction of duty refers to failure through negligence or obstinacy to perform one’s legal or moral duty to a reasonable expectation. In other words, it means willful or negligent failure to perform assigned duties or performing them in a culpably inefficient manner. Dereliction of duty is a specific offense in military law. “ (Quote from USLegal.com).

Dereliction of duty is an Impeachable Offense, as stipulated in the US Constitution. Dereliction of duty is also a US Military offense subject to a Courts Martial.

Will our sorry Congressional RINOs do their usual kid gloves, “boys will be boys” approach to Obama’s numerous violations of the US Constitution, or will they FINALLY draw up The Articles of Impeachment for B. Hussein Obama?


4 posted on 10/09/2013 9:07:45 AM PDT by Graewoulf (Traitor John Roberts' Marxist Obama'care' Insurance violates U.S. Constitution AND Anti-Trust Law.)
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To: Nachum

http://michellemalkin.com/2013/10/08/death-benefits-outrage-camp-bastion-widow-has-challenge-for-congress/

Send to everyone.


5 posted on 10/09/2013 9:16:29 AM PDT by ExTexasRedhead
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To: Nachum

Is there any MUSLIM prayer services continuing????


6 posted on 10/09/2013 9:21:43 AM PDT by Mr. K (Lies, Damned Lies, Statistics, and then Democrat Talking Points.)
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To: Nachum
Great list. But missing is Harry Reid's contempt for poor kids dying of cancer.
7 posted on 10/09/2013 9:21:43 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Nachum

Good job.
Thanks.


8 posted on 10/09/2013 9:24:53 AM PDT by Repeal The 17th (We have met the enemy and he is us.)
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To: Responsibility2nd

Good idea. I have added it.


9 posted on 10/09/2013 9:33:02 AM PDT by Nachum (Obamacare: It's. The. Flaw.)
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To: Nachum

Thank you for your efforts.


10 posted on 10/09/2013 9:35:42 AM PDT by Gator113 (Ted Cruz is settled law.)
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To: Nachum

America!


11 posted on 10/09/2013 9:42:33 AM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: Nachum

bkmk


12 posted on 10/09/2013 9:54:26 AM PDT by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: Nachum; seekthetruth
The Wall Street Journal editorial titled "Kevin Hassett and Abby McCloskey: Obama Rewrites Debt-Limit History" mentioned above has serious flaws. It states:

Congressional Republicans who want legislative conditions in exchange for a debt-limit increase are following a strategy that has been pursued by both parties the majority of the time. Of the 53 increases in the debt limit, 26 were "clean"—that is, stand-alone, no strings-attached statutes. The remaining debt-limit increases were part of an omnibus package of other legislative bills or a continuing resolution. Other times, the limit was paired with reforms, only some of which were related to the budget.

I've posted an analysis of this at this link. Following is the key portion and conclusion:

So let's look at the Congressional Research Service study from which this statistic comes. It appears to have come from a study titled "Votes on Measures to Adjust the Statutory Debt Limit, 1978 to Present, released February 15, 2013. In its Summary, the study does state the following:

Since 1978, the statutory federal debt limit has been changed 53 times by Congress through the enactment of legislation adjusting the federal debt limit, either as stand-alone legislation or as part of legislation dealing with other matters.

The study contains three tables. Table 1 lists information on all 53 debt limit measures since 1978. Table 2 identifies 26 stand-alone measures from these 53. Table 3 then lists the other 27 bills considered as other than stand-alone measures and provides brief background information on the nature of each measure and by what means it was considered. The following table gives some of the key items from Table 1 for the 27 non-stand-alone measures:

               OTHER THAN STAND-ALONE DEBT LIMIT MEASURES

                       House Vote       Senate Vote     Public Law    Debt
                    ----------------  ----------------     Date of   Limit
Year  Bill Number   Tally     Margin  Tally     Margin   Enactment ($ bil)
----  ------------  --------  ------  --------  ------  ----------  ------
1979  H.R. 2534     209-165       44  62-33         29    4/2/1979     830*
      H.R. 5369     219-198       21  49-29         20   9/29/1979     879*
1980  H.R. 7428     335-34       301  68-10         58    6/6/1980    n.c.
1983  H.R. 2990     Voice Vote        51-41         10   5/26/1983    1389*
1984  H.R. 5692     211-198       13  Voice Vote         5/25/1984    1520*
1985  H.R. 3721     300-121      179  Voice Vote        11/14/1985  1903.8
      H.J.Res. 372  271-154      117  61-31         30  12/12/1985  2078.7
1986  H.R. 5300     305-70       235  61-25         36  10/21/1986    2300
1987  H.J.Res. 324  230-176       54  64-34         30   9/29/1987    2800*
1989  H.R. 3024     231-185       46  Voice Vote          8/7/1989    2870*
      H.J.Res. 280  269-99       170  Voice Vote         11/8/1989  3122.7
1990  H.J.Res. 666  362-3        359  Voice Vote         10/9/1990    n.c.
      H.J.Res. 677  379-37       342  Voice Vote        10/19/1990    n.c.
      H.J.Res. 681  380-45       335  Unanimous Consent 10/25/1990    n.c.
      H.J.Res. 687  283-49       234  Voice Vote        10/28/1990    3230
      H.R. 5835     228-200       28  54-45          9   11/5/1990    4145*
1993  H.R. 2264     218-216        2  51-50          1   8/10/1993    4900*
1996  H.R. 2924     396-0        396  Unanimous Consent   2/8/1996
      H.R. 3021     362-51       311  Voice Vote         3/12/1996
      H.R. 3136     328-91       237  Unanimous Consent  3/29/1996    5500
1997  H.R. 2015     346-85       261  85-15         70    8/5/1997    5950
2008  H.R. 3221     272-152      120  72-13         59   7/30/2008   10615
      H.R. 1424     263-171       92  74-25         49   10/3/2008   11315*
2009  H.R. 1        246-183-1     63  60-38         22   2/17/2009   12104*
2010  H.J.Res. 45   233-187       46  60-39         21   2/12/2010   14294*
2011  S. 365        269-161      108  74-26         48    8/2/2011   16394
2013  H.R. 325      285-144      141  64-34         30    2/4/2013

* measures with a final vote margin of less than 100 in the House or less
  than 30 in the Senate
Note: n.c. = no change
Source: "Votes on Measures to Adjust the Statutory Debt Limit, 1978 to Present
A number of interesting facts are evident from this table. First of all, it doesn't appear that all of these 27 cases are independent. For example, there are 5 cases in less than a month, from 10/9/1990 through 11/5/1990. The first 3 of these cases involve no raise in the debt limit. Perhaps more interesting, the majority of these votes do not appear to be heavily contentious. Only 11 of the 27 measures resulted in a final vote margin of less than 100 in the House or less than 30 in the Senate.

The following table contains notes from Table 3 on the 27 non-stand-alone measures:

               OTHER THAN STAND-ALONE DEBT LIMIT MEASURES

Year  Notes on the Measure
----  --------------------
1979  required Congress & President present balanced budgets for 81 and 82
      made increase in debt limit part of budget process (in the House)
1980  included a repeal of the Presidentially imposed oil import fee
1983  included making the whole debt limit permanent
1984  included some miscellaneous admin authority to Treasury Secretary
1985  extended for a month some expiring acts, including a cigarette tax
      required report on legislation for alternative minimum corporate tax
1986  required the restoration of lost interest to certain trust funds
1987  used as legislative vehicle for the Balanced Budget ... Act of 1987
1989  included change in method of accounting for federal debt instruments
      repealed nondiscrimination rules that deal w/ employee benefit plans
1990  change in Debt Limit included in a continuing appropriations measure
      change in Debt Limit included in a continuing resolution
      change in Debt Limit included in a continuing resolution
      change in Debt Limit included in a continuing resolution
      change in Debt Limit included in Omnibus Budget Recon. Act of 1990
1993  change in Debt Limit included in Omnibus Budget Recon. Act of 1993
1996  temporarily exempted from limit monthly insurance benefits to SSA
      temporarily exempted from limit monthly insurance benefits to SSA
      included an increase in the debt limit in Title III
1997  included a debt limit increase in Title V, Subtitle G
2008  included an increase to the debt limit
      included an increase to the debt limit
2009  included an increase to the debt limit
2010  included provisions for “Statutory PAYGO” and “wasteful spending”
2011  included provisions aimed at deficit reduction
2013  required hold on Member salary if no budget resolution by April 15

Source: "Votes on Measures to Adjust the Statutory Debt Limit, 1978 to Present
These are of course very abbreviated notes on the measures. Still, they suggest that most of the additional items in the measure were not very major. I saw no mention of the issues that Wallace mentioned above (campaign finance reform, school prayer and busing and a nuclear freeze). Also, it appears that some of the debt limit increases may have been included with other bills (such as continuing resolutions) simply for convenience. At the very least, more study would be required for these cases. Simply treating all non-stand-alone measures the same does not make sense. Hence, it may be correct that, as Secretary Lew suggested above, "the question of threatening to cause a default of the United States, not until 2011 did it become a positive agenda".

On Friday, Warren Buffett was quoted as saying the following about the debt ceiling:

It ought to be banned as a weapon. It should be like nuclear bombs, I mean, basically too horrible to use.”

In fact, according to this article, only only one democratic country, besides America, has a debt ceiling. That country is Denmark but the article states that they "set the ceiling high enough so that it never slows the process of borrowing money and they can avoid political conflicts like the one currently gripping the U.S.". The article continues:

Barry Bosworth, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institute, said the U.S. debt ceiling “has no logical basis.”

Congress, through budget and appropriations bills, has sole authority to decide how much the government will spend, so he said “it makes no sense to have a secondary rule to then object to the deficit that emerges from the other decisions.”

At the very least, we could legislate that the debt ceiling must always be addressed in a stand-alone measure. Meanwhile, those who distort history to defend such threats, as do the authors of the Journal editorial, should be challenged.

Note: On a related issue, this article explains why government shutdowns only seem to occur in America.

13 posted on 10/09/2013 11:50:58 PM PDT by remember
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To: remember

I appreciate your thoughtful commentary and have added some to the shut down file I am keeping.

I would only argue that there is a very good reason why we have a debt ceiling and that Congress has control over it. It is because it gives the power of the purse to Congress and provides for a true separation of powers. I am not sad that we have had shut downs in the past or that we may have them in the future, but I would be very sad if the presidency gained even more power than it has and left the people of our country with violence as the only recourse to effectual negotiations in the seats of government.

Make no mistake, this administration would thumb their noses at Congress if it were not for the power of the purse. I would also argue that the parliaments of Europe are a complete mess and have absolutely desire to emulate them.


14 posted on 10/10/2013 9:47:16 AM PDT by Nachum (Obamacare: It's. The. Flaw.)
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To: Nachum
I would only argue that there is a very good reason why we have a debt ceiling and that Congress has control over it. It is because it gives the power of the purse to Congress and provides for a true separation of powers.

But Congress already has the power of the purse. The debt ceiling simply gives the majority of either house a hostage for extracting their demands from the other house and/or President. To repeat the quote from my prior post:

Congress, through budget and appropriations bills, has sole authority to decide how much the government will spend, so he said “it makes no sense to have a secondary rule to then object to the deficit that emerges from the other decisions.”

Make no mistake, this administration would thumb their noses at Congress if it were not for the power of the purse. I would also argue that the parliaments of Europe are a complete mess and have absolutely desire to emulate them.

I am not an expert on the parliaments of Europe. However, I reject the notion that America is better than every other country in the world in every way. I find it ironic that we are using the debt limit, a questionable construct that no other democratic country except Denmark has, to ensure that we remain the only developed country without any universal medical safety net. I am also not an expert on Obamacare and would not be surprised if there are many things about it that will need to change over time. However, I think our current medical system is insane. We have a system where, if you should lose your job and insurance when you're 64, you're on your own. But as soon as you turn 65, you become a part of a special club with most all of your medical expenses paid. I know someone who was just a few months over 65 when they had a massive heart attack. Had they had it a few months earlier, their entire life would be different. They were fortunate enough to win the Medicare lottery. Then under George W. Bush, we piled yet another entitlement on them. Seniors are the ones most in need of medical care. But a rational society would phase those benefits in or share some of them with their entire population. Instead, we just keep piling more benefits on our seniors.

In any case, I think we need a little more humility in America. Yes, we are exceptional in certain areas but, when every other country seems to be doing better in other areas using another system, we need to be more little more open to giving those systems a try. Instead, we are wasting our time and effort holding hostages and demonizing those in the opposing party.

15 posted on 10/11/2013 1:31:10 AM PDT by remember
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To: remember
I am not an expert on the parliaments of Europe. However, I reject the notion that America is better than every other country in the world in every way

I am not suggesting that. I do suggest that the American governmental system IS better than ALL the parliamentary systems of Europe. As Benjamin Franklin opined, we have a Republic- if we can keep it.

My family ran from Europe. You can keep it. You can keep the bias, war, and hatred of Europe. Piss on them- with all due respect.

As for being 'humble', we saved Europe twice. We fought, bled and died for them. Our sons are buried in their cemeteries. We spent untold fortunes rebuilding them, defending them, and letting them lecture US on how they are superior. People ran from them, my family included.

Screw humble.

16 posted on 10/11/2013 7:49:32 AM PDT by Nachum (Obamacare: It's. The. Flaw.)
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To: Nachum
<I do suggest that the American governmental system IS better than ALL the parliamentary systems of Europe. As Benjamin Franklin opined, we have a Republic- if we can keep it.

Once again, I think it's simplistic to just say our government is better than every European government in every way. There are likely ways in which both have advantages. It reminds me of the simplistic approach that many people take to political parties. Many seem to feel that their party is better than the other in every way. I suspect that many people find it comforting to think that, however badly their life may be going, they are still morally and intellectually superior to half of the country! It creates a Lake Wobegon effect where all the citizens are morally and intellectually above average! In fact, I think that to a large degree, the two parties just focus on different things. Neither is inherently superior to the other.

My family ran from Europe. You can keep it. You can keep the bias, war, and hatred of Europe. Piss on them- with all due respect.

Which country did your family run from?

As for being 'humble', we saved Europe twice. We fought, bled and died for them. Our sons are buried in their cemeteries. We spent untold fortunes rebuilding them, defending them, and letting them lecture US on how they are superior. People ran from them, my family included.

Screw humble.

Perhaps "humility" was a poor choice of words on my part. Sure, we can screw "humble". But I would suggest that we also screw "arrogance". Arrogance blinds and absolute arrogance blinds absolutely. That arrogance may help lead to one of the things that attracted me to politics. Politics is the only area that I know of where a lay person can sit down for an afternoon and find serious flaws in an editorial published in an esteemed national publication. That's all the time it took me to find the serious flaws in the Wall Street Journal editorial that I mentioned above. And I did that by simply reading the very sources on which the editorial claimed that it was based! I can't think of any other area in which a person could do that. I obviously couldn't do that in a hard science like nuclear physics. I could likely not even do that in my main area of expertise... computers. Only in the political arena could I do that.

I suspect that there is so much sloppy research in the political arena because it's judged to work. The true believers read the editorial, quote its numbers to promote their beliefs, and then move on to the next supportive editorial. Those people don't care that there are a few inconvenient flaws in the article. Why should they? They have found the one true party and any supporting facts are secondary.

17 posted on 10/12/2013 1:00:05 AM PDT by remember
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