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To: gwgn02

The response to Rand Paul hides one major issue. The reason the Japanese planned on attacking Southeast Asia was to get at the Dutch oil fields in Indonesia to replace the oil they were no longer receiving from the US. FDR embargo and the ultimatum which came with it threatened to halt Japan’s war effort in China. Some say FDRs ultimatum was analogous to the Austria-Hungary’s ultimatum to Serbia: to stay a sovereign nation the only response was war.


12 posted on 03/31/2014 11:14:52 AM PDT by C19fan
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To: C19fan
to stay a sovereign nation the only response was war

If Japan had to pay more for oil they would cease to be a sovereign nation?

Who was about to conquer Japan in 1941, exactly?

21 posted on 03/31/2014 11:19:50 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: C19fan

You are correct that the issue is not as simple as Bad Japan.

In the 30s the Japanese were quite literally faced with a choice between continued expansion into SE Asia to get the markets and resources they needed to maintain a first-world economy. Or a retreat to the home islands and perhaps Korea and Formosa. Which were not even capable of growing adequate food for the exploding Japanese population.

After WWII Japan survived by selling its products all over the world, first cheap crap and then increasingly value-added stuff. This wasn’t an option in the 30s, because tariffs imposed by other nations prevented them from selling their products.

So when FDR imposed the sanctions, the Japanese couldn’t stay where they were, and retreat wasn’t a very attractive option. Their only real option was to strike for regional empire that would allow them to survive as an imperial power.

IOW, Paul was right that FDR intentionally forced the Japanese into a no-win situation. His mistake was in thinking the Japanese would be unable to do anything about it.

Since the Japanese had started two previous wars, against China and Russia, by surprise attacks on the enemy’s premier naval base, at the very least American naval and political thinkers showed an amazing lack of forethought as to the possible repercussions of their policies.


28 posted on 03/31/2014 11:27:12 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: C19fan
Some say FDRs ultimatum was analogous to the Austria-Hungary’s ultimatum to Serbia: to stay a sovereign nation the only response was war.

Some say, but some are idiots.

Our only demand was that they remove their troops from Indochina.

61 posted on 03/31/2014 11:51:10 AM PDT by jdege
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