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To: bunkerhill7
I'm not sure who you are arguing with, no one here has said that the RKBA originates with the second amendment. Of course common sense says that the RKBA is a natural right. But nevertheless, the second amendment was written as the definitive authority on the matter, in order to protect that preexisting right.
14 posted on 10/30/2014 9:17:53 AM PDT by MeatshieldActual (Texan Independence, now and forever!)
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To: MeatshieldActual

Sorry THE SECOND AMENDMENT DID NOT COME INTO BEING OUT OF THIN AIR-

but the several states individual`s right to keep and bear arms were “written as the definitive authority on the matter, in order to protect that preexisting right” of the citizens in those states because states rights preceded and preempted the Second Amendement because the states` citizens` right to keep and bear arms in their constitutional clauses preceded the US Constitution and were the basis of the Second Amendment, in some cases the STATE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS WAS COPIED WORD FOR WORD INTO THE SECOND AMENDMENT>.

Pre-Constitution Practices and Several Precedent State Constitutions
THE SECOND AMENDMENT DID NOT COME INTO BEING OUT OF THIN AIR-
THE SEVERAL STATES EXISTED FIRST BEFORE THE UNITED STATES EXISTED-
The States Constitutional Rights Came First before the USA or the U.S. Constitution Existed
The GUN RIGHTS advocates should file also for states` rights in Obama`s and other states`violation of their respective state constitutions which have more explicit right-to-bear-arms- freedom clauses language than the U.S. Constitution and have precedent used as the basis for the Second Amendment.
The Second Amendment appears merely to have synopsized the explicit language in the States` Constitutions, because that is where the 13 original colonies/states spelled out their states` citizens` constitutional rights and they knew that this is where the Second Amendment originated.
The Second Amendment did not originate out of thin air but was born out of the states` constitutions` explicit right-to-bears-arms freedom clauses language.
PRECEDENT:
State constitutions had the right to keep and bear arms in them before the U.S. Constitution was written.
NY 1777 NH 1784 MA 1780 NC 1776 PA 1776
For example:
`XL. And whereas it is of the utmost importance to the safety of every State that it should always be in a condition of defence; and it is the duty of EVERY MAN who enjoys the protection of society to be prepared and willing to defend it; this convention therefore, in the name and by the authority of the good people of this State, doth ordain, determine, and declare that the militia of this State, at all times hereafter, as well in peace as in war, shall be armed and disciplined, and in readiness for service.`-— www.nhinet.org/ccs/docs/ny-1777.htm [NY 1777 Constitution] (my caps)

Vermont Constitution `Article 16th. Right to bear arms; standing armies; military power subordinate to civil
That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State
MILITIA
“ 59. Militia
The inhabitants of this State shall be trained and armed for its defense, under such regulations, restrictions, and exceptions, as Congress, agreeably to the Constitution of the United States, and the Legislature of this State, shall direct.`
New Hampshire Constitution of 1784
`PART I. - THE BILL OF RIGHTS
II. All men have certain natural, essential, and inherent rights. among which are —the enjoying and defending life and liberty —acquiring, possessing and protecting property —and in a word, of seeking and obtaining happiness`

“Pubic Records of Connecticut” apr 1775 already show the right of householders to keep and bear arms
1775 April 19? Connecticut do. do.
[431]” And be it further enacted by the authority aforesaid, That each inhabitant so inlisted shall be furnished with good fire-arms, and that the fire-arms belonging to this Colony, wherever they are, shall be collected and put into the hands of such inlisted inhabitants as have not arms of their own ; and that each inlisted inhabitant that shall provide arms for himself, well fixed with a good bayonet and cartouch box, shall be paid a premium of ten shillings ; and in case such arms are lost by inevitable casualty, such inhabitant providing himself as aforesaid shall be allowed and paid the just value of such arms and implements so lost, deducting only said sum of ten shillings allowed as aforesaid: said premum of ten shillings to be paid as soon as such inhabitant shall provide such arms as aforesaid. That where the aforesaid provision fails, sufficient arms shall be impress’d, compleatly to arm and equip said inhabitants:

the said impress to be limited only to the arms belonging to house-holders and other persons not on the militia roll; and in case any householder or other person shall voluntarily furnish any inlisted inhabitant, not able to procure arms for himself, with a good, gun,

well fixed with a good bayonet and cartouch box, shall have and receive a premium of ten shillings, and in case of loss shall receive the value thereof, deducting the said ten shillings as aforesaid ; and also that every person from whom any gun shiill be impress’d, as aforesaid, shall be paid for the use of such gun the sum of four shillings, and in case of loss shall be paid the just value of such gun, deducting the sum of four shillings aforesaid ; and that a particular account be taken of the arms that may be used, and the same be all apprized by indifferent judges; and that if any inlisted inhabitant through negligence shall lose or damage the arms found for him, as aforesaid, such loss or damage shall be deducted out of his wages.” “The public records of the colony of Connecticut [1636-1776”,p.418

Sorry but “Provincial Papers of New Hampshire” Jan 1776 shows the RIGHT OF INDIVIDUALS TO MANUFACTURE GUNS

“Jan 20, 1776

“that it lay for further consideration The Committee to draw a Plan for Providing fire arms for a Colony Stock Report as follows viz

That for every good firearm Manufactured in this Colony made after the following manner viz

a Barrell three feet nine Inches long to carry an ounce ball; a good Bayonet with blade Eighteen inches long; Iron ramrod with a Spring to retain the Same; the makers name Engraved on the Lock which Shall be delivered at Exeter to Nicholas Gilmnn Esq receiver General on or before the first of May next.

The owner of Such firearms receive Three pounds for Each of said receiver General after having Tryed said gun in the Presence of the said receiver General.

Such firearms receive Three pounds for Each of said receiver General after having Tryed said gun in the Presence of the said receiver General with four Inches & a half of Powder well wadded at his the owner’s own Risque and that there be appointed one Good man well approved in Each County to receive any firearms so made in said County on the Same Condition as before mentioned for the rec General to receive them and the Persons so appointed to receive the money for the Number of Guns so Delivered”

“Provincial and State Papers, Volume 8 During The Revolution 1776-1783” By New Hampshire “, Nathaniel Bouton

soory but Massachusetts Constitution 1780 already gives that right to keep & bear arms to individuals 9 years before the 2nd Amendment.

Massachusetts Constitution 1780
`Art. XVII. The people have a right to keep and to bear arms for the common defence”

North Carolina Constitution 1776
17. That the people have a right to bear arms, for the defense of the State; and as standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.


Pennsylvania Constitution 1776
XIII. That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; And that the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power”

EVEN THE BRITISH IN 1794 ATTEST TO THE EXERCISE AND PRACTICE OF THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS BY AMERICAN KIDS PRIOR TO THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR
1775 “Events which served to shew [sic] that if the Americans were yet unacquainted with military discipline they were not destitute of either courage or conduct but knew well and dared to avail themselves of such advantages as they possessed. The people of the colonies are accustomed to the use of fire arms from their earliest youth and are in general good marksmen. Such men placed in a house behind a wall or amongst trees are capable of doing as much execution as regular soldiers. And to these advantages which they possessed during the greatest part of the nineteenth of April we may attribute the inconsiderable loss sustained by them compared with that of our detachments.” Stedman,p.120 [”The History of the Origin, Progress, and Termination of the .American War,” Stedman, C. 1794, Volume 1]


15 posted on 10/30/2014 11:15:16 AM PDT by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.")
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