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Utah to seize own land from government, challenge federal dominance of Western states
Washington Times ^ | December 3, 2014 | Valerie Richardson

Posted on 12/04/2014 12:37:49 PM PST by george76

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To: Safetgiver
I posted from the enabling act in reply 7.....There has been precedent set. Laws mean nothing to the Feds, ergo nothing to the States.

And I read up on the court decision. The ruling in question does not overturn the Utah law against polygamy so it does not overrule the enabling act.

61 posted on 12/05/2014 6:29:36 AM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg

Your answer came from other posters.

I simply see a statist.


62 posted on 12/05/2014 6:33:05 AM PST by Bulwyf
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To: editor-surveyor
Almost as disgraceful as the state claiming ownership of the rain that falls on your roof!

Oh that angers me to no end...but, what people don't know won't hurt anyone. Live as free men, and free men you will be.

63 posted on 12/05/2014 6:45:12 AM PST by dware (3 prohibited topics in mixed company: politics, religion and operating systems...)
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To: dware

When I took civics I was taught the federal government could only own the DC land, everything else was State. The Constitution does not grant lands to the feds. Every State needs to take back their lands.


64 posted on 12/05/2014 6:45:29 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam should be outlawed and treated as a criminal enterprise!)
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To: thackney

“The Federal Government has owned land since we began growing past the original colonies.”

But outside the States. The Constitution grants the federal government the area of DC of ten square miles. That’s it. Most of the lands the fed owns today were taken after the States were formed. Teddy Roosevelt started much of it.


65 posted on 12/05/2014 6:51:43 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam should be outlawed and treated as a criminal enterprise!)
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To: Bulwyf
Your answer came from other posters.

Not really, no. And since you can't answer them either then I'll let the question drop.

I simply see a statist.

And I'd say you're seeing things.

66 posted on 12/05/2014 7:15:08 AM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: lurk
In Oregon it is our timber. The feds have done a horrible job managing our federal timber lands, driven by the environmentalists. Some rules that they sue over is replanting burned federal forest land. Not allowed. Spraying weed control in newly planted forests. Not allowed. Allowing roads to be maintained so firefighters can get into the burning forests. Not allowed. Letting hunters take care of over population of deer, cougars even bears, by maintaining the roads. Not allowed.

I have driven to and through all kinds of federal forest land in Oregon and thousand of acres of burned forest some 20 years old just sit there rotting, filled with weeds and dead trees and no birds or animals anywhere in sight. The environmentalists (the feds) will not let Oregonians harvest the burnt trees and replant, why, because if they allowed that then the loggers would be setting fires all over the state in federal forest lands.

Now when another fires sweeps through that tinder fuel of dead and rotting trees it will burn so hot as to put a sterile glass sheen on the surface where no green anything will grow. It is the most asnine management I have ever witnessed, meanwhile we have 14% unemployment and our timber mills are shutting down.

Douglas fir is the most prolific tree growing in our coast mountain range on the planet. They are Oregon's resource crop. Like Iowa and corn, we grow trees, it is just a 40 year crop instead of annual.

67 posted on 12/05/2014 7:20:55 AM PST by thirst4truth (Life without God is like an unsharpened pencil - it has no point.)
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To: CodeToad

If your claiming the federal government could never own land outside DC, how could it expand past the original colonies?


68 posted on 12/05/2014 7:33:40 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer.)
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To: DoodleDawg

You’re ok with feds owning everything. Other posters have refuted your claims, yet you stubbornly cling to the side of socialism. Until I see otherwise, that’s what I see.


69 posted on 12/05/2014 7:34:46 AM PST by Bulwyf
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To: thackney

The federal government never owned the original colonies. They existed long before the USA existed.


70 posted on 12/05/2014 7:42:37 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam should be outlawed and treated as a criminal enterprise!)
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To: CodeToad

And how did the next state come into existence after the 13? And all the ones that followed?

Aside from Texas, that was an independent nation that joined by Treaty...


71 posted on 12/05/2014 7:43:45 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer.)
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To: thackney

That was federal land but once a State is formed the feds do not won the State. Do you own the previous house you sold to someone else?


72 posted on 12/05/2014 7:45:03 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam should be outlawed and treated as a criminal enterprise!)
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To: CodeToad
That was federal land

Step one, we agree the federal government can own land. Correct?

once a State is formed the feds do not won the State.

Forming the state, it specified what land the feds would retain. I'm not familiar with all the states, but I've read the documentation for Alaska that broke up the acreage. If the document is not binding, there isn't a state.

Please understand, I'm in no was suggesting the fed should retain near the amount of land they do. They should not.

But I was responding to the claim the Fed's COULD NOT own land, and that is false.

73 posted on 12/05/2014 7:51:47 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer.)
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To: CodeToad
Do you own the previous house you sold to someone else?

Good example.

It is common to sell property and keep mineral rights, dividing up the original estate. Or dividing large acreage and keeping portions. I'm not required to keep it 100% intact.

74 posted on 12/05/2014 7:53:28 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer.)
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To: thackney

“Forming the state, it specified what land the feds would retain.”

There ya go. The fed isn’t supposed to retain any lands.

Doing so lays the foundation that the fed can take back lands. States are sovereign territories (that means they have borders), and are not subject to federal discretion.

If the fed can carve up a State’s internal lands then the fed could easily just move borders around by taking land from one State then giving it to another.


75 posted on 12/05/2014 7:55:42 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam should be outlawed and treated as a criminal enterprise!)
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To: CodeToad
The fed isn’t supposed to retain any lands.

I don't see that requirement. I agree they retain too much.

76 posted on 12/05/2014 7:57:12 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer.)
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To: thackney

“I’m not required to keep it 100% intact.”

So, you can sell a house but keep the living room? Or sell a car but keep rights to drive it too?


77 posted on 12/05/2014 8:03:18 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam should be outlawed and treated as a criminal enterprise!)
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To: CodeToad

I can keep whatever rights and access I put into the contract to sell. A simple example is also to retain roadway that passes through. I’ve include such items on other land deals.

If the seller doesn’t agree, they don’t buy and sign the contract.


78 posted on 12/05/2014 8:07:56 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer.)
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To: thackney

Exactly, however, show me in the US constitution whereby the federal government can take lands from the States.

The ENTIRE point being made is that State’s have had lands taken against the contract they entered into.

Think about the entire concept of the federal government. It is a union, not an overlord. The ONLY thing the union participants agreed to is that the US Constitution would be the supreme law of the land in that every State had to honor it. They did not agree that the federal government would be the supreme ruler with the ability to make whatever laws they desired. The federal government is restricted in its actions by the Constitution, the contract.

As a union, the federal government does not own anything within the State boundaries. The federal government represents a union, not a land owning government of any kind. It can hold land as territories, but it cannot own a State. If it cannot own a State then it cannot own any part of a State.

If you are claiming the federal government can own any part of any State then it can own the entire State.

If the federal government can own all lands within a State then the State does not exist.


79 posted on 12/05/2014 8:15:12 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam should be outlawed and treated as a criminal enterprise!)
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To: CodeToad
The ENTIRE point being made is that State’s have had lands taken against the contract they entered into.

First, I was responding to a post that claimed the Federal Government could not own lands outside of DC. We both seem to agree that is false.

Secondly, I only see in this article discussion of the State trying to take land from the Feds. I hope they win, but I don't read what you are describing.

80 posted on 12/05/2014 8:23:27 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer.)
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