"The Ukraine is weak."
Posted on 12/23/2014 8:39:40 AM PST by KOZ.
Kiev (AFP) - Ukraine took a historic step toward NATO on Tuesday in a parliamentary vote that stoked Russia's anger ahead of talks on ending the ex-Soviet state's separatist war.
Lawmakers in the government-controlled chamber overwhelmingly adopted a bill dropping Ukraine's non-aligned status -- a classification given to states such as Switzerland that refuse to join military alliances and thus play no part in wars.
President Petro Poroshenko had vowed to put Ukraine under Western military protection after winning an election called in the wake of the February ouster in Kiev of a Moscow-backed president.
"Ukraine's fight for its independence, territorial integrity and sovereignty has turned into a decisive factor in our relations with the world," Poroshenko told foreign ambassadors in Kiev on Monday night.
"European and Euro-Atlantic integrations -- that is Ukraine's XX course," Poroshenko tweeted moments after the 303-8 vote.
Ukraine assumed neutrality under strong Russian pressure in 2010. It had sought NATO membership in the early post-Soviet era but -- its once-mighty army in ruins and riven by corruption -- was never viewed as a serious candidate.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
>>There is one downside—if Ukraine were to be granted NATO membership, that would further provoke Russian aggression as a perception of Western expansion into their historic sphere of influence. That could get ugly.
NATO today is nothing more than the financier mafia debt collector for these guys:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq9yjt_JbWs
>>Hopefully the adults in the NATO alliance will not fall for this.
Amen to that. Adult members of FR really need to push a little harder against the knee jerk reactionary adolescents among us who follow the Wall St. party line as a way of life. We are not Abraham Lincoln’s party and haven’t been since Teddy “Bully” Roosevelt and oligarch yellow press that gutted the GOP of its original core beliefs. There are a hand full of us capable of reinstating those original core beliefs, but we better be quick cuz WWIII is looming.
Yet it's still a thing, and a thing we have to take seriously. We wouldn't tolerate Russia getting seriously involved with Canada or Mexico. Don't think they'd tolerate the same with us and the Ukraine. We have to look at strategic implications of such a decision. Would the benefits outweigh the risks? Maybe, I really don't know, but there is a big difference between stiff-arming Russia and moving into their AO.
Yeah, great. Except it’s still an organization that would require that we get militarily involved if Ukraine was invaded by Russia. Are you willing to go along with that?
What do you propose MeganC?
Should we bring Ukraine under the US Nuclear Umbrella?
Yet we've never bothered Canada or Mexico for being involved with Cuba. They're sovereign countries and unless we're going to be as bad as Russia we need to trust them to make their own decisions and we need to respect their sovereignty as we expect them to respect ours.
We already did under the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances. Now we need to keep our word.
It’s still not the same. There’s a significant portion of the Ukrainian population that’s ethnically Russian. Far more so than Poland, the Czech Republic, or the Balkans, Russia sees Ukraine as being almost a part of Russia. They will not take such action lightly. Military intervention is almost a certainty in this instance.
That's erroneous, at best.
The Budapest Memorandum was never even submitted to the US Senate for ratification as a treaty...in fact it was universally criticized as "a bridge too far".
It ws a BS letter signed by Bill Clinton without any other institutional backing or support.
In fact, even the Russians didn't submit for ratification to the Duma.
I’m sorry but that’s the same twaddle that Hitler used to justify his actions - uniting the German speaking people under Greater Germany. It wasn’t an excuse then and it’s still not an excuse.
Why are you defending Putin?
You’re willing to send us to war over Ukraine, then?
Didn't you learn in Sunday School that bearing false witness is a sin?
You cannot cite a single instance in my posting history that supports Putin.
Yet you make this public claim because you are either not smart enough or knowledgeable enough to argue the merits of the point.
Perhaps you ought to get out of the kitchen and go fight a war of liberation for the Ukrainian people. See how that works out for you.
I'm willing to stand against aggression, Neville. If the Russians want to go to war then that's their choice. But if we're not willing to go to war then the Russians will soon be annexing the Baltic countries because they're already heading down that particular path and they're betting the success of the operation on Americans like yourself.
"The Ukraine is weak."
Oh really? Mexico respects US sovereignty? Where the hell have you been lately?
Mexico respects the sovereignty we exercise.
Right now, you need to focus on what is happening in your own nation. Or used to be nation. Much aggression going on here.
I am not willing for any more American soldiers to sacrifice their lives for someone elses money and power.
If the elitists behind this notion want to spend their own blood on it. Fine with me.
Alrighty then, LOL
I wasn’t trying to be funny but you’re right that it IS funny!
My point is that if we secured our border then Mexico will go along with it. They may not like it but they’ll respect it. For now we have the barn door wide open and they’re accepting the invitation from the Democrats and Republicans to send their millions northward.
The Democrats get voters and the Republicans get...something. I’m not sure what they get from it but they keep going along with the Democrats, don’t they?
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