NAFTA May Have Saved Many Autoworkers’ Jobs

New York Times ^ | March 29, 2016 | Eduardo Porter

[Olog-hai]

When Donald Trump threatened to “break” the North American Free Trade Agreement, auto industry workers offered up some of the loudest cheers.

Mr. Trump easily won the Republican primary in Michigan this month. The state, home base for the American auto industry, also delivered an upset victory to Bernie Sanders, the Democratic anti-NAFTA standard-bearer.

But the autoworkers’ animosity is aiming at the wrong target. There are still more than 800,000 jobs in the American auto sector. And there is a good case to be made that without NAFTA, there might not be much left of Detroit at all.

“Without the ability to move lower wage jobs to Mexico, we would have lost the whole industry,” said Gordon Hanson of the University of California, San Diego, who has been studying the impact of NAFTA on industries and workers since its inception more than two decades ago. …

[central_va]

The transmission in the Mustang I own was made in the PRC.

[vette6387]

“How Germany Builds Twice As Many Cars As The U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice As Much In 2010, Germany produced more than 5.5 million automobiles; the U.S produced 2.7 million. At the same time, the average auto worker in Germany made $67.14 per hour in salary in benefits; the average one in the U.S. made $33.77 per hour.”

Because in reality, the Germans build crap for cars:

Yeah, I tried it with a BMW Convertible for my wife. Wonderful car to drive, but the $hits to maintain. When the plastic radiator blew up on a hot day, the tow truck operator told us, “alll the German cars do it.” When I took it to an indy shop to have it repaired, they told us that a “precautionary radiator change:” at 50,000 miles on all BMW’s should be mandatory and you should put in an aftermarket part to eliminate the problem. Hew said we were lucky that the resulting overheat didn’t crack the cylinder head because that would have added $4,000. to the $1,000 repair bill for the radiatior, hoses, new water pumt and the replacement of the plastic water outlet with an aluminum one. Oh, now the convertable top interferes with the stowage compartment lid and we are told that the “strapping” in the top is stretched because we didn’t put it down enough and the repair is a $6,000. new top. So screw the Germans and their “wonderful cars, my cheapt-assed Corvette which I bought at the same time as the BMW and which has about the same milage hasn’t had a thing go wrong with it!

[vette6387]

“Re: “In 2010, Germany produced more than 5.5 million automobiles; the U.S produced 2.7 million.””

And they are all crap! I’ve had a BMW and a VW. Both were service nightmares. I wouldn’t have anyother German car if somoene gave it to me free! And when you have to speak German to it, the cost of repairs and parts is outrageous. When the BMW was new, I always put on two pairs of underware when I took it to the dealer for service! As for the VW, bump the front bumper against anything a few times and the whole piece of crap plastic front end starts falling off the car! For us, from now on it’s new Chevys or Fords. Chrysler isn’t an option since they are now “Italian cars.”

[Trumpinator]

Again, the what free traitors bring up - in arguing we should keep free trade - is that the salaries/unions/benefits of American workers are to blame. If we search for real world examples we find that is not true and not the cause of the rust belt.

[vette6387]

“Again, the what free traitors bring up - in arguing we should keep free trade - is that the salaries/unions/benefits of American workers are to blame. If we search for real world examples we find that is not true and not the cause of the rust belt.”

So what is it if it isn’t wages paid that are in excess of the value of the services provided? Trump’s idea to tariff imported goods is really the only way we can “maintain” the lifestyles of our workers. But that has implcations with respect to the costs borne by our consumers. There isn’t a free lunch imbedded in this issue. Now, to the extent that our “business leaders” are simply pocketing the difference by selling imported stuff at prices that approach what a domestic producer would have to sell at to cover costs and a profit margin, the tariff idea is a good one, because you take away the “incentive” for them to screw the American worker and keep the excess profits for themselves and their stockholders. But the overrriding issue here shold be our trade imbalance with foreign countries. China, Mexico, etc. are living off of the US like leeches. Go TRump.

[Trumpinator]

Trump proposed PUNISHMENTS for violations of agreements. Difference from tariff for tariff’s sake. Though I prefer we don’t grant China equal status as true democracies like in the EU or India.

[vette6387]

“Trump proposed PUNISHMENTS for violations of agreements. Difference from tariff for tariff’s sake. Though I prefer we don’t grant China equal status as true democracies like in the EU or India.”

I think ALL countries deserve the same scrutiny. Not unlike NATO, we seem to always get the raw end of the deal. India is peddaling Mahindra tractors here and probably hurting John Deere in the process. I don’t really see countries like India and Japan as “democracies.” Japan, in particular, is sociaism masquerading as democracy. I don’t know what to make of India except it’s a human $hit hole.

[dfwgator]

The problem is that there must be consideration for both sides.

Opening up our markets to your products should be reciprocated with that country opening up their markets to ours’. But that is rarely ever the case. That’s not Free Trade. That’s Robbery!

[Trumpinator]

India is still a freer country than Red China and a genuine republic - shit hole or no. We should have scale based on how closely they are like us. Democracies like the USA get preferential treatment and dictatorships are given high tariffs for non essential goods (some raw goods we don't produce or can obtain from democracies would get a pass).

This gives an incentive for countries to become more free and like us and punishes nations not like us. The UK and EU would be like in the 90s percentile of free trade, Russia and India would be in the 80s to 70s, etc.

[Moleman]

Screw your Toyota, buy American! Make America great again!!

[HLPhat]

>>India is still a freer country than Red China
>>and a genuine republic - shit hole or no

A genuine republic where the caste system still plays a significant role in motivating those who manage to rise far enough to keep their toes slightly above the snapping jaws of those who'd gladly climb up and replace them.

That's a self-evident fact which made them yuuugely motivated H1B Useful Idiots in the context of the technological Empower(tm)ment that facilitated the sub-prime rape of America. 

It is incumbent upon the honorable craftsman to be aware
of whether or not his services are being used
as a means to accomplish evil ends -
and to act (or NOT) accordingly.

 

 

India, BTW, is where Yuri Bezmenov was operating before he defected from the Evil Empire:

The answer is very simple.  Long before communists occupy the city, there was extensive network of informers; local Vietnamese citizens who knew absolutely everything about people who are instrumental in public opinion - including Barbers and Taxi Drivers.  Everyone who was sympathetic to United States was executed.  Same thing was done under the guidance of the Soviet Embassy in Hanoi, and same thing I was doing in New Delhi. To my horror, I discovered that in the files were people who were doomed to execution.  There were names of pro-Soviet Journalists, with whom I was personally friendly.

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6KUDv1wzraWhwlBt1

YMMV

[1rudeboy]

LOL—says the guy who’s probably never been here. And as far as the rest of you experts, how come everyone’s whining that Ford wants to move Focus production to Mexico without admitting that Ford is retooling the plant to make the Ranger? Because Trump isn’t whining about it?

[Trumpinator]

What part of the sliding scale did you not get? You sound like your trolling me and dropped in half way on my conversation. I proposed nations that are similar in terms of laws and freedom to the USA have a sliding scale for trade tariffs. I put India in the 80s to 70s range. Thanks for your trolling, though, Appreciated.

[zeestephen]

Re: “Salaries and benefits are not what causes exports to stumble.”

Sorry, I still disagree, for several reasons.

(1) Most of Germany's “exports” are loaded on rail cars that roll right through the factory. Claiming that Germany “exports” cars to Austria and Switzerland is like saying that Texas “exports” refined oil to New Mexico and Arkansas.

(2) The population density in northern Europe is several times higher than in the USA.

(3) I'm not aware of any non-union automobile manufacturers in northern Europe, and all of them “export” cars to their next door neighbors.

[Trumpinator]

I at least posted an article backing my thesis. Please do likewise.

[equaviator]

I’ve worked at the GM Tech Center and US Army TACOM during wartime. Born in Detroit and a resident of white-flight bedroom communities my entire life. I don’t know many unskilled hourly union-types. However, I did work at GM’s Plant 21 back in ‘78 as a temporary salaried procurement assistant. Back in ‘78, the downsizing movement was just getting started.

[HamiltonJay]

“Without the ability to move lower wage jobs to Mexico, we would have lost the whole industry,” said Gordon Hanson of the University of California, San Diego, who has been studying the impact of NAFTA on industries and workers since its inception more than two decades ago. …

BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH

The sad thing is, there are people dumb enough to believe this.

[HLPhat]

>>What part of the sliding scale did you not get?

What sliding scale was used to manufacture the 700+ Trillion dollars worth of derivative a$$paper flushed into the global economic sewage pond with the assistance of outsourced (both offshore and onshore H1B) Techno serfs utilized by the Mortage Origination bidness, Batman?

http://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=trump%20mortgage%20failed

[HLPhat]

>>What part of the sliding scale did you not get?

What sliding scale was used to manufacture the 700+ Trillion dollars worth of derivative a$$paper flushed into the global economic sewage pond with the assistance of outsourced (both offshore and onshore H1B) Techno serfs utilized by the Mortage Origination bidness, Batman?

http://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=trump%20mortgage%20failed

[Lazamataz]

APRIL FOOLS!