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What’s Wrong in the Federal Employee Conduct and Discipline System
FedSmith.com ^ | December 6, 2016 | Bob Gilson

Posted on 12/06/2016 1:05:52 PM PST by yetidog

Just how much “due process” for Federal employees is needed?

(Excerpt) Read more at fedsmith.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: firing; governmentemployees
Excellent article for anyone who wants to know why poor performing federal employees are not fired with greater frequency
1 posted on 12/06/2016 1:05:52 PM PST by yetidog
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To: yetidog

A guvment job is about as solid guarantee of “employment” you’ll ever see.


2 posted on 12/06/2016 1:06:50 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: yetidog

Make it the same standard as any corporation.


3 posted on 12/06/2016 1:10:36 PM PST by lurk (TEat)
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To: yetidog

Federal management is as much or more of a corruption problem than the rank and file. Much of it has been affirmative actioned into position and is all about moving fellow tribal members up the ladder. Even flat out nepotism is ignored.


4 posted on 12/06/2016 1:16:54 PM PST by Stentor
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To: yetidog

In my 25 years of federal service, I never even heard of a government employee who was fired for simply not doing his job. When a government employee was fired, it was usually because of a felony conviction.

It was once said that if they ever started firing people for not doing their job, all of us federal employees would be in deep trouble.


5 posted on 12/06/2016 1:36:52 PM PST by DJ Taylor (Once again our country is at war, and once again the Democrats have sided with our enemy.)
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To: Stentor
Even flat out nepotism is ignored.

I'm a federal employee, and let me tell you, it's worse than anyone can imagine. I've seen downright illegal hiring practices take place to bring in the cronies into high paying positions, while good, honest, hard-working people (like myself) get crapped on and kept in lower paying positions. If anyone wants to know what I've gone through, I'll Freepmail you, but I won't post it here.

6 posted on 12/06/2016 1:39:37 PM PST by ducttape45 (Every Saint has a past, Every Sinner has a Future!)
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To: yetidog
Was told some years ago that the real reason the TSA came into being was so that the FAA could offload most of its otherwise unbootable incompetent aa staff. Dunno if true...
7 posted on 12/06/2016 2:05:23 PM PST by hold_muh_bier (and watch this: 8 years of a Trump Presidency followed by 8 years of a Pence Presidency!)
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To: yetidog

Only fired when they run out of places to hide the bodies


8 posted on 12/06/2016 3:32:51 PM PST by Hambone 1934
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To: yetidog

Why do they get both union protections AND civil service protections?

Doesn’t that kind of job protection have a monetary value? I would say it’s worth at least 30% of salary to have a job in which one can’t be fired...there pay should be cut accordingly.


9 posted on 12/06/2016 3:37:28 PM PST by rottndog ('Live Free Or Die' Ain't just words on a bumber sticker...or a tagline.)
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To: rottndog

*their...


10 posted on 12/06/2016 3:38:03 PM PST by rottndog ('Live Free Or Die' Ain't just words on a bumber sticker...or a tagline.)
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To: DJ Taylor

Not all; only about 10 or 12 percent, that holds true for the population in general.
In my 23 years(having been promoted from the ranks) as a supervisor of 84 government employees; my total bag limit was 31 FIRED, 18 demoted, 3 transferred out because I expected them to actually earn their paycheck.
The charges were every thing from excessive tardiness, to taking a bribe, to theft of government property, to soliciting a hooker.
They can be fired; it just takes a lot of work, interviewing involved people, documentation, and unpaid overtime hours to get the case RIGHT & TIGHT.
I developed a reputation for being the only GESTAPO boss they had ever hired.


11 posted on 12/06/2016 3:45:43 PM PST by 5th MEB (Progressives in the open; --- FIRE FOR EFFECT!!)
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To: hold_muh_bier
Was told some years ago that the real reason the TSA came into being was so that the FAA could offload most of its otherwise unbootable incompetent aa staff. Dunno if true...

I thought it was a jobs program for Somali immigrants.
12 posted on 12/06/2016 4:00:29 PM PST by Organic Panic (Gentrification in America. Rich White Man Evicts Poor Black Family - MSNBCPBSCNNNYTABC)
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To: rottndog

I could be wrong but I don’t think most government employees are civil service employees anymore. I think they are under FERS...??


13 posted on 12/06/2016 4:05:31 PM PST by Runner4life
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To: Runner4life

That’s just the name for the new retirement system.


14 posted on 12/06/2016 7:42:41 PM PST by Gil4 (And the trees are all kept equal by hatchet, ax and saw)
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To: hold_muh_bier
Different department. Not true. At the same time the FAA built a controller college program and then didn't hire the graduates because they weren't diverse enough.

As a fairly experienced professional pilot I can't tell if it is the area or a downward trend, but some of the controllers around DC really suck. I flew into at a controlled airfield recently with an observation of 1300 feet overcast 5 miles visibility. When I checked in with tower they said they had some ground fog in the area. It actually turned out to be about 100 feet vertical vis with a bit over 1/4 mile and solid fog.

15 posted on 12/07/2016 4:44:46 AM PST by USNBandit (Sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: USNBandit
I *think* I read that FAA-to-TSA info at PPRuNe years ago.

I'm self-loading freight, not a pilot, so every bit of aviation 'news' I get comes from that site or Simon Hradecky's AvHerald.

That said, why wouldn't FAA personnel transfers to the then-new TSA have been possible?

16 posted on 12/07/2016 2:30:21 PM PST by hold_muh_bier (and watch this: 8 years of a Trump Presidency followed by 8 years of a Pence Presidency!)
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To: hold_muh_bier
Because the TSA doesn't pay enough.

The real problem with fed employees is that there is no effective evaluation program. Without a track record of bad performance they win reinstatement. Even for conduct violations, you can look at the civil service penalty matrix and it spells out "fire the guy", and they win reinstatement from the labor relations board. There are some really good civil servants, and in some agencies a majority are good at their jobs. The problem is the bad employees are like a case of herpes. You can't get rid of them. The stories are amazing. The negative effects on the good employees are significant.

17 posted on 12/07/2016 3:27:26 PM PST by USNBandit (Sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: USNBandit
So... I'm beginning to think you're more than a pilot and perhaps also work/have worked inside fed.gov, given your perspective on "civil service" jobs (and how the 'bad apples' demoralize the decent employees)?

Many years ago I worked for a State-run enterprise; none of its 'slackers' could be fired, either, and the [mandatory membership] Union would go to bat for the absolute worst offenders. I quit within six months and returned to the private sector.

Happy to accept your take on the FAA-to-TSA 'info' as being unreasonable from a financial standpoint; would now like to ask if you think President Trump will be able to positively redirect the moribund fed.gov bureaucracy and make 'successful job performance' a requirement of retention?

18 posted on 12/07/2016 4:11:50 PM PST by hold_muh_bier (and watch this: 8 years of a Trump Presidency followed by 8 years of a Pence Presidency!)
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