Posted on 12/07/2016 10:39:19 AM PST by Stopthethreat
Union leader bitches about unfulfilled promises...
Is Chuck Jones fat and happy, or is he about to lose his home?
It's an interview with Jim Cramer. I haven't looked but I'm sure you could find it on the CNBC website.
He does not seem to be making statement that even most jobs will be lost to Automation...
Come on. That's been the story of the last 30 years in manufacturing.
That's why US manufacturing output is close to an all time high but manufacturing employment continues to drop.
I don't want the jobs to go to Mexico but keeping them here at their current labor rate doesn't work for Carrier. The laws of economics are what they are.
The poor Indiana workers can choose their poison - be replaced by a Mexican or a robot.
You miss my point.
That 16 million dollar was going to be made in Mexico and those 550 jobs were eliminated regardless of whether the plant was located in Indiana or Mexico.
That high tech plant means 800 jobs stay in the United States , along with the economic activity that supports 50,000 other American jobs.
If that investment was made in Mexico the accumulated productivity due to advanced manufacturing, lower labor costs and lower overhead costs for no EPA, OSHA, FICA, SSI, health care, workers comp + zillions of other government regulations would have destroyed American manufacturing and contributed to the loss of those other 50,000 k jobs carrier helps support int eh US economy.
If the investment were made in China, the effect is even more devastating.
If we force American companies to put their next generation, high tech manufacturing equipment outside of American borders, then then you add the higher productivity to al their other advantages and America is dead and so far behind the power curve it can never catch up.
Simple case of the technologically rich get richer and the technologically poor get poorer.
I need over 100 480v HVAC units, and would prefer Carrier since they can fit my existing curbs. I was ready to switch out of fear of quality losses as a result of, not moving to Mexico, but the potential sabotage of disgruntled union members...Do I still need to worry? This PIG of a Union Boss just told me, “Yes, you do.”
Again, he is not saying all jobs will leave, and I would hope that Trump and Pence are savvy enough to be mindful of that in negotiations concerning tax incentives. Trump will look very bad if there are no jobs left in a few years —which Democrat Jim Cramer and center-to-left Business Insider would probably enjoy watching :(
What would you suggest to workers...people in their late 30s, 40s, 50s; and I ask that in all sincerity. In the 80s, it was merely manufacturing jobs that were outsourced. The solution was right-to-work states to be competitive. Then jobs moved farther away for cheaper production. Today practically all jobs are at risk of outsourcing, insourcing (H-1B Visas, etc) and robotics.
Jobs leave the community and all the peripheral businesses shut down as well...Sadly, on road trips this summer, I saw towns with entire swaths of Main Street full of empty store fronts and idled factories.
What are people to do? Not everyone can major in robotic engineering...
That's not my understanding.
I think the trade off was lower-cost labor or capital investment to reduce that labor.
Head of the Steel Workers local that the Carrier employees are a part of.
Why?
I've met a few and I gotta say, they certainly do not know how to work for a living. They's askeered of it.
That 'work' ethic trickles down to several levels of that type of organization. And in some unions, it seeps to the very bottom in various places.
I think the trade off was lower-cost labor or capital investment to reduce that labor.
The reality is that the first wave of China/Asia boom has been done with cheap labor and minimal capitol equipment. Most of that capitol equipment was cast off American assets.
That wave is coming to an end and Chinese companies are investing in high modern high technology manufacturing.
Similar with Mexico, except that Mexico has more of America's industrial equipment transplanted .
Much of this equipment is getting worn out nearing the end of it's life due to obsolescence.
Due to the bad business climate in the US, much of America's domestic industrial base is being treated as non re investment grade business and is being run into the ground and operated until it becomes non functional.
There is a massive wave of re investment in next generation capitol assets that needs to happen world wide.
It is absolutely critical that as much of that investment occurs in the United States or we will be dead economically.
Anyone who thinks you can run America on a services economy is smoking dope.
Robotics is bogey man to scare the uninformed.
Robotics and automation create many jobs, often more than they replace.
Automation generates higher throughput and higher quality, lower cost goods.
To fully automate our country to the level of automation the scaremongers predict would take a full generation of massive industrial output and create an economic boom that would last for several lifetimes.
Back in the day, we used to ask ourselves how increasing complex technology and computer systems would be used by the great uneducated masses.
Well, look at how high tech Obama Phones are being operated quite successfully by ghetto hoods with a first grade education to see a glimpse of the future
Here’s the question...... when does automation become robotics?
Is not every robot an automated process?
Is not every robot an automated process?
Excel spreadsheets are an automation of accounting spread sheets that automate the so not every automated process is robotic
Robotics are by definition and automated process. Robots are loosely considered to be a mechatronic devices that simulates human activity.
For example, if you outfitted a semi truck to operate without a driving compartment that would b loosely considered an automated process.
if you put a machine into the drivers compartment of the semi to operate it, that would be considered more of a robotic process
no hard fast rules on any of this.
I don't have a silver bullet answer, and I don't think anyone does.
As in most things, it's easier to say what not to do - don't ignore what's going on around you and don't ignore the laws of economics.
Like it or not, the technology genie is out of the bottle and not going back in. Our ability to automate both manufacturing and service tasks, to cheaply communicate and send work all around the world is only going to accelerate regardless of the rhetoric of politicians.
Economics says that as a producer if you don't take advantage of opportunities to reduce costs your competitors will and you'll be out of business.
The answer isn't to hide behind trade walls and try to fight off the changes. You'll lose that game in the long run as the rest of the world adopts the new capabilities. The answer is to be aggressive and embrace the possibilities. Go forth and out compete the rest of the world.
There's no doubt that individuals will be hurt as businesses transform, but that's always been the case. Technology has disrupted entire segments of the economy and that will continue to happen. I think that's good in the long run but what I think is really moot - the change is going to happen whether I like it or not.
The best solution I can come up with for the displaced workers is to offer retraining, perhaps some assistance to help people relocate to where the jobs are, and make sure new industries and jobs can grow to provide job opportunities.
I recognize that it's not a perfect solution but I do think it's better than the alternatives, and also one of the biggest issues our society will have to face over the next couple of decades.
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