Posted on 02/26/2017 3:49:04 PM PST by Slyfox
Math is a religion to me because it seems impossible to disbelieve it, even though it is an entirely abstract proposition. And furthermore, it seems to produce so much from nothing, and then these productions correspond to our experience, and “organize” them, as we might say.
There are many other ancillary observations ... that it has rituals that resemble prayer, for example ... that it has PRIESTS ...
Well it's accounted for in Genesis 1:1, "the beginning" op. cit. , so I don't get your game.
Oh, I can easily disbelieve the math in my checkbook, best to double, double check checks! ;-)
I said: “Within the six “day” nothing is said of creating the Earth. It was already here, and evidently destroyed.”
You said: “Well it’s accounted for in Genesis 1:1, “the beginning” op. cit. , so I don’t get your game.”
I don’t get you mental density. According to Genesis 1:1, God created the Earth. Genesis opens with the Earth already present and created. In Genesis 1:1, the Earth is unorganized, empty, and dark —”tohu and bohu” -the Hebrew which is translated without form and void. It was not created that way originally — Isa. 45:18: “For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain (tohu and bohu) he formed it to be inhabited...” Theologians say that the Earth was destroyed when Satan rebelled, who was in charge down here, in a pre-Adamic world. As I mentioned, that is where Johm Milton got his plot line for Paradise Lost. Milton studied the Bible.
At some point, God set about reclaiming it, and in Scripture the reclamation is organized under the setting of a six-day creation period. WITHIN the six-day heading, it spells out what God did. It never says “I will create land and separate it from the water I just created, etc.” The water and land are already here, God just works with it.
Well, I already quoted Genesis 1:1, and of course it states "In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth." and goes on to say ( in 1:2 ), "And the earth was without form ..." etc. So, that's the way God created it. That's why I say it's naturalistic, in that it intimates that the initial creation must needs be in "rough form".
Forgive me if I see in this Laplace's nebular hypothesis.
Well, that's right. To me, "God's created reality" is an apt expression for our ultimate inability to COMPREHEND reality, so that we must humble ourselves, and our abilities, and our achievements, in the face of it ... in the face of GOD.
But, OTOH, don't start telling me all about God ... to me God is ineffable.
Except planted in Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.
So God did not 'create' the earth without form, and not in vain, it became that way.
Became that way ??
In Genesis 1:1 God creates the heaven and the earth, and in Genesis 1:2 it is remarked that "the earth was without form", so you are interjecting Isaiah between the first two verses of Genesis? On what basis? and to what end? ( Isaiah is giving a recap, in my estimation, and I don't see anything revisionist there. )
"Curiouser and curiouser!"
I did not pen Genesis or Isaiah... Isaiah uses the very specific words in Isaiah 45:18 that Moses did in Genesis 1:2...
תֹּהוּ tôhûw, to'-hoo; from an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), i.e. desert; figuratively, a worthless thing; adverbially, in vain:—confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.
Same specific word is used by Jeremiah in chapter 4, verse 23...
I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, H8414 and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
God said He did NOT create this earth in 'waste', 'in vain', but to be inhabited...
Genesis 1:2 is when Lucifer rebelled, and was cast down/ overthrown... epic battle. Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven O Lucifer, son of the morning? how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! .....
Ezekiel 28:12 "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, 'Thus saith the Lord GOD;
Thou sealed up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou has been in Eden the garden of God;.... 'tree of the knowledge of good and evil, also called the serpent'
You can read Ezekiel 28 for the rest of the story given in regards to the first rebel's history and his future....
Moses did not record the creation of Lucifer, but, Isaiah and Ezekiel got descriptive about his origins and his later end..
But in point of fact, the Bible is the origin and foundation of European Natural Science, most exemplified perhaps by the origin of geology in the attempt to document the Noachic Flood. Of course, that didn't go smoothly, but it was a start! And to me, it does show that the spirit of naturalism is promoted by the Genesis Creation account.
I'm starting to think we're singing the same song from the same hymnal, maybe tenor & baritone, but otherwise the same tune?
dr_lew: "God is ineffable."
I'll do it in bass: God is ineffable.
Immortal, invisible, God only...
;-)
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