Posted on 03/12/2017 2:31:17 PM PDT by libstripper
From my understanding, the House version is “crappy” because they think they can’t add certain things under reconciliation which Cruz say they can add. They add the things to make it NOT “crappy” . . . and they say but you can’t do that under reconciliation . . . whereas Cruz says you can IF Pence says they can . . . So it goes from a CRAPPY bill to maybe a Good OR Better bill that Cruz, Lee & Paul can vote for with the 51 or 52 votes and not 60 like Ryan thinks they need. Tort reform can be added and seems like something else I’m forgetting at the moment.
What I don’t understand are the Tax Refunds . . . I haven’t read the whole bill as it stands today . . . I’m not necessarily against them but one should never get back more than they paid in OR get a refund IF they didn’t pay anything in. I’m ok with making health insurance tax deductible like a mortgage but never receive back more than you paid in. Helps equalize the playing field for those who have employer paid insurance to those who don’t.
Amen! Since when have the Rats believed in fair play?
Go Cruz! I’m glad he wasn’t the candidate, because he would never have been elected, but maybe he can do some things for Trump that Trump doesn’t know how to do.
Ryan is looking at what is, in his mind, “possible.” And it’s true that Bambi got a lot of states to buy it in such a way that it would be very difficult for them to get out of it, which is why their congresscritters might not vote for any change. But Cruz is going at it with a whole different mindset, and I think that’s a good thing.
Thanks. Great post.
Ryan knows they don’t need 60. He’s a piece of garbage.
And yes, mexican ILLEGALS got checks as high as 25k in back earned income credits for the kids while working illegaly.
I highly DOUBT that the bill prevents some from get more money than they gave in taxes.
But now I need to find out. Then it’s past bad.
It’s insane.
If you are supporting reconciliation which is what Ryan and Cruz are working with, then you are in their camp, not the REPEAL camp.
Get pissy all you want, it won’t separate you from being on the side of the purveyors of reconciliation.
Ryan in a rare unexpected miraculous fantasy moment of a temporary burst in IQ state, could assemble a bill to repeal Obamacare. And he would get the votes.
And then it would be sent over to the Senate where McConnell could not get it to the floor because of a filibuster. At that point, McConnell has few options:
1. He can go nuclear which would basically incinerate the Senate’s 60-vote rule thereby turning the American political system from a republic into a mob-based democracy,
2. Let wrecking ball Cruz crunch Obamacare using reconciliation measures deemed by parliamentary tricks, but nevertheless is NOT REPEAL,
3. Put the repeal bill on the backburner and let the President play hardball with criminal democrats and bring them to the 60-vote table.
I am for #3. It means the battle is more extensive and longer term, but will be final. The other two choices are harmful to the republic.
If you find out, let us know. When people get back more than they paid . . . and especially illegals getting it back . . . burns me up.
The reason it took so long is because the pneumonia hadn’t quite cleared up, took awhile till that was gone- and they couldn’t do the xrays and scans until that was out of the way- the way they explained it was that cancer will sometimes form underneath pneumonia- and scans and stuff won’t be able to distinguish too well- then after the biopsies didn’t show cancer cells, (which doc said could have ‘just missed the cells when biopsying) i had to wait to see if the spots would diminish- two months for the first re-scan=- Yuck- but it was encouraging when the spots were shrinking
during the wait though- I found myself reflecting on death quite a bit- being fairly young- it was kind of a shock to think it might happen if they couldn’t get what we thought was the cancer under control- I found my attitude about a lot of things changed quite a bit- things i thought were important were no longer a priority- I didn’t think I’d ever get feeling contemplative about death if I ever got sick- I was wrong- I did- but thankfully it was not to be-
I had watched my elderly friend go from being very interested in the goings on in the world to where he just basically shrugged and said “I don’t worry about things anymore” and I remember thinking “How can you not care? This is important” (issues like Second amendment- first amendment etc)- He’d always been very passionate about such things- but now I know why he got like he did- priorities really do change when faced with death- I guess being scared has a lot to do with it- feeling awful does too-
Yup- that 30% you faced- that is kinda a high percentage- ‘good percentages’ I consider down around 10-12% or so and below- Anything above that and I’m a somewhat pessimistic personality, and causes me to worry too much 30% woulda had me curled up in fetal position-
“1. It’s still blowing up the rules and that means payback will be a b!tch if the Dems regain control
2. They won’t do it. Republicans never take risks like this to get things done, only Democrats do. Show me one example to the contrary.”
1. Believing if the Rs play nice the Ds will, if like believing Islamic terrorists play nice if we close GITMO and toss out the travel ban.
2. True
So you are for letting Obamacare stand as is until some undefined time in the future after Trump has applied some fairie dust to make magical things happen?
I’m against the Ryan Care bill ....PERIOD. You know...the bill that Ryan wants to be passed AS IS without amendment.
Still a Cruz fan, myself, Qwackertoo. No reason not to be; especially now that his knowledge and skills are finding a worthwhile outlet in undoing this crap that is Zero-don’t-care.
Let’s dump the whole damn thing, lock, stock and barrel, in one fell swoop. Dump the mandate, dump the handouts to insurance companies, dump the fines and penalties.
Simple follow on legislation to open up health insurance sales across state lines, and another piece to allow importation of prescription medications. I know others, here, will call that simplistic, but I don’t think it needs to be any more complex than that, at the FedGov level. The states would have to craft more comprehensive local legislation to effect those new circumstances.
Medical tort reform can come when it’s ready, IMO. Not a big fan of topping out civil damages, in general, but let’s see what they can come up with.
The Costs Of Illegal Immigration
It is estimated that illegal immigrants cost this country somewhere between $400 Billion dollars and $600 Billion Dollars Every Single Year
DARK SIDE of ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION YEARLY COSTS
45,008 illegal aliens from countries on the U.S. list of state-sponsors of terror or from countries that protected terrorist organizations and their members were released into the general public between 2001 and 2005 despite the fact that DHS couldn’t confirm their identity. Ultimate costs are unknown. Remember 9/11? ?
The Border Patrol arrested 39,215 “other-than-Mexicans,” along the Southwest border. In 2004, the number jumped to 65,814. DHS admits they only catch an estimated 1/3 of the border crossers. Ultimate collateral damage costs of the ones not caught are unknown. ?
Some sources say that bin Laden purchased several suitcase nukes from the Chechen rebels in 1996. Allegedly several of these weapons have been forward deployed to the US in preparation for al Qaeda’s next attack on American soil. Ultimate costs are unknown. ?
According to two trainers at an anti-terrorism conference, preparations are well underway in Islamic terrorist camps for attacks on American schools that will bring “rivers of blood and staggering body counts.” Ultimate costs are unknown. ?
Illegal aliens are enormously involved identity fraud. Costs are unknown. ?
Illegal aliens are involved in a plethora of other criminal activities including such crimes involving methamphetamine, cocaine, home invasion, auto insurance fraud, life insurance fraud, food stamp fraud, mortgage fraud, auto theft, drug trafficking, prostitution, and counterfeiting documents. Costs are unknown. ?
At the end of 2003, approximately 267,000 illegal aliens were incarcerated in U.S. correctional facilities. $6.8B
Mac Johnson estimates that illegal aliens murder between 1,806 and 2,510 people in the U.S. annually, an average of 2,158 murders. (Representative King states illegal aliens are responsible for 4,380 murders) $8.4 B
According to FBI Estimates on Number of Arrests in 2005 in the United States and applying a straight 5% of population representation, illegal aliens would have committed 704,709 crimes in 2005. Based on an average of $25,000 per crime, the costs would be $17.6 billion. Some estimates have their involvement much higher. $17.6B
Based on a GAO report of 55,322 illegal aliens incarcerated in federal, state, and local facilities during 2003 and extrapolating the average number of offenses out across all 267,000 incarcerated illegal alien criminals results in some 1,288,619 crimes! Based on an average of $25,000 per crime, the costs would be $32.2 billion. Another estimated 240,000 criminal illegal aliens are not incarcerated. $32.2B
Professor David Anderson reports that the net annual burdened costs of crime, in 2006 dollars that would be $1.62 TRILLION. A 5% illegal alien participation would be $81 BILLION. Some studies indicate the participation of illegal aliens is much higher than representation. $81B
80,000 to 100,000 illegal aliens who have been convicted of serious crimes still walk the streets. As previously noted, based on studies, those illegal alien criminal will commit 13 offenses each. Total costs are unknown. ?
An estimated 2,258,550 pounds of cocaine made it through the southern border with an estimated street value conservatively estimated $72.2 BILLION. Resulting costs of the associated crime is unknown. Assume 50% is paid for through crime. $36.1B
There are currently over 400,000 unaccounted for illegal alien criminals with outstanding deportation orders. Those are just the ones apprehended. At least one fourth of these are hard core criminals. Resulting costs are unknown. ?
Researcher Deborah Schurman-Kauflin Ph.D. of the Violent Crimes Institute, reports that the illegal alien population includes 240,000 sex offenders – a “conservative estimate.” Based on studies, they will commit 130,909 sex crimes annually. Using $50,000 as the average total economic impact, resulting costs are: $6.5B
63% of the sexual crimes, 82,473 victims, were committed by previously deported perverts who returned to commit the crime. Using $50,000 as the average total economic impact, this would be $4.1 BILLION - more than the cost of a proper border fence along the southern border. . $4.1B
Operation Predator resulted in 6,085 child predator arrests. Some pedophile statistics report that each pedophile molests average of 148 children. If so, that could be as many as 900,580 victims. Resulting costs are unknown. ?
Gangs Or Us estimates that MS-13 has over 15,000 members and associates in at least 115 different cliques in 33 states, and these numbers are continually increasing. .Resulting costs are unknown. ?
In one report, mostly illegal alien Hispanics were involved in 25% of the fatal traffic accidents, an astounding 5 times as much participation as representation. In those accidents, 75% of the drivers had no auto insurance, nearly all of the vehicles driven by migrants were registered to other drivers, and 93% of the vehicles had false out-of-state tags. Resulting costs are unknown. ?
Illegal aliens are often involved in DWIs at a rate that is 3-6 times greater than their representation in the population. Resulting costs are unknown. ?
At a 5% representation, illegal aliens are responsible for 844 alcohol related fatalities. Data suggests their participation is actually far higher. (Rep.King states that illegal aliens were responsible for 4,745 alcohol related fatalities. If so, that would 5.6 times as many deaths as representation.) Resulting costs are unknown. ?
Based on NHTSA data and a 5% participation rate, illegal are responsible for 309,050 accidents, 2,132 deaths, 139,400 injuries, and a cost of $11.5 billion. Data suggest their involvement is much higher, maybe 3-5 times higher. $11.5B
Half of all children born to Hispanic Americans in 2002 were illegitimate, twice the rate for American whites and 42 percent higher than the overall American rate. Rates are suspected of being even higher for Hispanic illegal aliens. Resulting costs are unknown. ?
There are an estimated 5.1 million ESL students in the USA. If 90% of the ESL students are children of illegal aliens then the education costs for children of illegal aliens is about $34.5 billion per year. $34.5B
Many illegal aliens are carrying horrific third world diseases. In the 40 years prior to 2002, there were only 900 total cases of leprosy in the US. In the following three years there have been 9,000 cases. TB is epidemic in many illegal alien communities and a new Multiple-Drug-Resistant (MDR) TB is spreading. Each person infected with TB will infect 10 others. Treating a single case of MDR TB costs between $250,000 and $1,200,000 per person. Resulting costs are unknown. ?
Between March 2000 and March 2005, only 9 percent of the net increase in jobs for adults went to people born in the US but natives accounted for 61 percent of the net increase in the overall size of the 18- to 64-year-old population. The jobs were taken mostly by illegal aliens, displacing native born Americans. Resulting costs are unknown. ?
The National Academy of Science reported that from 1980 to 1995 there was a 44% of the decline in the real wages of high school dropouts as a result of immigration. This affects Black and Hispanics Americans the greatest and is a great contributor to the high unemployment rate in this segment of the population. Resulting costs are unknown. ?
Harvard Professor George Borjas has reported that illegal aliens displaced American workers at a cost in excess of $133 billion dollars in 2005. $133B
The Wall Street investment firm Bear Stearns states we are losing $35 billion a year in income tax collections from jobs that are now off the books. $35B
National Academy of Sciences study estimated that immigration’s net benefit to the American economy is only $10 billion. This item is included to illustrate one of the very few real economic benefits of tolerating illegal aliens. Most of the other benefits of illegal aliens “doing the work that Americans won’t” at lower wages goes into the pockets of their employers. -$10B
A Rice University study calculated that in 2006 the net annual cost of legal and illegal immigration will add up to $108 billion. Illegal immigration is about half the total. $54B
The population of the USA recently crossed the 300,000,000. At the present growth rate, it will hit 400 million as early as 2029 and about 500 million in 2050. And if things don’t change real fast, maybe even a Billion by 2075. Additional infrastructure costs will be in the TRILLIONS. ?
Immigration will account for 96 percent of the future increase in the school-age population over the next 50 years. Cost to the infrastructure is unknown. ?
A recent report notes that illegals sent and estimated $45 Billion south in 2006, which was up from an estimated $30 Billion in 2004. That money leaving the economy does not produce secondary jobs here.
Using a 2:1 money multiplier, that is $90 billion removed from the American economy. $90B
A Census Bureau study estimates that households headed by illegal aliens used $10 billion more in government services than they paid in taxes in 2002. These figures are only for the federal government; costs at the state and local level are also significant. The study also finds that if illegal aliens were given amnesty, the fiscal deficit at the federal level would grow by nearly $29 billion. $10-29B
Jonathan Weisman of the Washington Post states “The Senates embattled immigration bill would raise government spending by as much as $126 billion over the next decade, $12.6B
While some of the costs summarized above are subsets, e.g. cost of the murders as part of the cost of crime, as you can see the economic costs of tolerating illegal immigration is quite considerable. You are paying for it in terms of higher taxes, insurance premiums, et cetera. Some estimates place the net costs of each illegal alien in the country at $50,000 – $100,000. (FYI: 12,000,000 X $50,000 = $600,000,000,000) When the all the indirect costs are factored in, it is probably even higher. In any case, it is a cost that YOU are paying for.
Even saving ten cents on a head of lettuce, how much lettuce would that buy?
Regardless,
What price do you put on each American who has been molested, raped, killed, or murdered by an illegal alien?
http://www.usillegalaliens.com/the_costs_of_illegal_immigration.html
Fetal position, lol. I just ate day and night! My typical stress response.
Sounds like you had an INTENSE And life changing episode, my friend.
I am glad all turned out well.
Sometimes I find myself arguing and yelling and getting sick about politics and sometimes it hits me, in 30 or 40 years, (who knows really!) I won’t be part of this Movie anymore. :)
And I take a step back.
Thanks for those stats.
[[And I take a step back.]]
Yup that’s a great way to put it- as that is exactly what happens- That is what was going through my friend’s mind I’m sure- realizing he will be leaving it all behind- I didn’t understand it then- but having gone through a situation i thought was bad- made me realize it- it’s very sobering
The use of excessive words often indicates dishonesty.
If Cruz had won the nomination, Trump would have endorsed him right away.
Ted, is that you? You seem to be rather emotionally invested in him. The fact is he doesn’t have a strategic bone in his body which is why he’s completely alienated from everyone in the Senate. Exhibits A-Z: his RNC speech. What exactly did he accomplish with that stunt? I spoke to people about him prior to the election season, and they just remembered him as the guy who read “Green Eggs and Ham” on the Senate floor—they weren’t impressed. Even his good friend Rand Paul had to distance himself in order to keep from being dragged into virtual irrelevance along with him.
Unfortunately, Cruz is destined to be the right-wing Bernie Sanders—a good speaker for The Cause, but not accomplishing much in the realm of substance. He’s young enough in his Senate career to potentially change that, but will he be able to pull it off?
Keep your chin up. There are at least 2 of us here at Good Old FR. And I expect that Cruz will be Trump's number one guy in the Senate over the next few years.
I will give Cruz a 100% pass and take him out of my doghouse if he comes through for AMERICA which will prove to me that he is not in it just for himself. Cruz, do the right thing dammit!
“Being similar to 2013’s filibuster reform, it runs the risk of “fundamentally altering the way Congress works.”
Gee, how about that! We NEED to FUNDAMENTALLY ALTER the way Congress works, so that stuff we NEED to have done there actually does get done.
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