Posted on 03/18/2017 12:30:39 PM PDT by Syncro
Yes, I clearly understand your point that Dan and I (and ML) are not in any serious disagreement on the matter of conscience, and I don’t recall implying in my previous posts that we are.
Great post.
Just the other day members of this forum were subjected to yet another Martin Luther hit piece, wherein conscience of the individual was juxtaposed against the alleged "conscience of the Church", Luther being accused of having deformed conscience (for daring to point out abuses).
What era of that alleged "conscience of the Church" was, as usual, left assumed had always been one-and-the-same unchanging. That assumption is simply not the case, never has been, not without acknowledging there has always been some amount of justifiable disagreement on non-essentials among unity upon true essentials.
Don't look now, but you are in agreement with millions of old school Protestants.
Coming up next -- why you and I should be burned alive at the stake for heresy.
What does healthcare have to do with insurance? What does Christian prayer have to do with government intrusion into healthcare. Just so you know, for every dollar of expense, hospitals are getting 25 cents. Works for the conglomerate hospitals, not for small or independent ones. Cut the insurance middleman, now.
If Luther did this post V2. As http://scholarship.law.stjohns.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1090&context=jcls states,
the documents of Vatican II do not reduce the apparent ambiguity between the personal duty in the individual to form her or his own conscience and the individual's responsibility to listen to the Church, its tradition, and Magisterium. It is certainly correct to say that "the Council fathers... were willing to tolerate two different visions of the moral life." - Halstead, James., Conscience, the American Bishops and the Renewal of Moral Theology: The Notion of Conscience in the Pastoral Letters of the American Bishops(1986) p. 133,
Cardinal Ratzinger points to the conundrum when speaking of the two interpretations: One is a renewed understanding of the Catholic essence, which expounds Christian faith from the basis of freedom and as the very principle of freedom itself. The other is a superseded, 'pre- conciliar' model, which subjects Christian existence to 86 JOURNAL OF CATHOLIC LEGAL STUDIES [Vol. 47:69 authority, regulating life even in its most intimate preserves, and thereby attempts to maintain control over people's lives. Morality of conscience and morality of authority, as two opposing models, appear to be locked in struggle with each other. Accordingly, the freedom of the Christian would be rescued by appeal to the classical principle of moral tradition: that conscience is the highest norm that man is to follow, even in opposition to authority. Authority-in this case, the [M]agisterium-may well speak of matters moral, but only in the sense of presenting conscience with material for its own deliberation. Conscience would retain, however, the final word.
Some authors reduce conscience in this, its aspect of final arbiter to the formula conscience is infallible .... But .... if this were the case, it would mean that there is no truth-at least not in moral or religious matters, which is to say, in the areas that constitute the very pillars of our existence. - JOSEPH RATZINGER, Conscience and Truth, in ON CONSCIENCE: Two ESSAYS 11, 11-12 (2007)
We’re good then.
11 This is what the Lord says to me with his strong hand upon me, warning me not to follow the way of this people:
12 “Do not call conspiracy
everything this people calls a conspiracy;
do not fear what they fear,
and do not dread it.
13 The Lord Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy,
he is the one you are to fear,
he is the one you are to dread.
14 He will be a holy place;
for both Israel and Judah he will be
a stone that causes people to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall.
And for the people of Jerusalem he will be
a trap and a snare.
15 Many of them will stumble;
they will fall and be broken,
they will be snared and captured.”
16 Bind up this testimony of warning
and seal up God’s instruction among my disciples.
17 I will wait for the Lord,
who is hiding his face from the descendants of Jacob.
I will put my trust in him
Matthew 15:10-20 (NIV)
10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand. 11 What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.”
12 Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?”
13 He replied, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14 Leave them; they are blind guides.[a] If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”
15 Peter said, “Explain the parable to us.”
16 “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. 17 “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”
Acts 5:27-33 (NIV)
27 The apostles were brought in and made to appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 28 “We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name,” he said. “Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man’s blood.”
29 Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than human beings! 30 The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead—whom you killed by hanging him on a cross. 31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins. 32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”
33 When they heard this, they were furious and wanted to put them to death.
I actually do have at LEAST one dime for every time I said that.
?? Channeling Obama, since he doesn’t post here.
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