Was Martin Luther an Anti-Semite?

Townhall.com ^ | April 1, 2017 | Michael Browne

[Mrs. Don-o]

The ECF's (thanks for that acronym) testimony and practice resulted in the formation of the Biblical Canon. If they're not credible, you don't have credible Scriptures, either.

In other words, you either have both (written and oral Apostolic Tradition) or you have neither.

For example, read Jerome, whom most Protestant apologists accept as a good guy as far as the formation of the Canon is concerned.

In “Against Helvidius”, he wrote in defense of the Ever-Virginity of Mary, which was already part of the body of beliefs of the extant Churches East and West. These Churches still subsist as Catholicism, Eastern and Oriental Orthodoxy, and the Assyrian Church of the East, all of which title Mary the "Ever Virgin", and always have.. (You can't find any earlier historical time when they didn't.)

And how did Jerome argue against Helvidius?

Sure he had his own lines of reason, his own interpretations of Scripture, his own copious scholarship. But even though he was a formidable and even vehement arguer, he did not consider his arguments disposative, as if it could be established on his own authority. No, his clincher was always, finally, that This is what the Churches teach. This is what they all believed since Apostolic times.

Helvidius had argued against the doctrine of Mary's perpetual virginity by appealing to Tertullian, whom Jerome simply dismissed by pointing out that Tertullian was "not a man of the church."

"We are, however, spending our strength on trifles, and, leaving the fountain of truth, are following the tiny streams of opinion. Might I not array against you the whole series of ancient writers? Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenæus, Justin Martyr, and many other apostolic and eloquent men, (He adds, “If you had ever read what they wrote, you would be a wiser man.”)

He makes the same argument in the formation of the Canon. He lays aside his view (his own opinion was against the seven Greek books of the Deuterocanon) and writes to Rufinus,

"The churches choose to read Daniel in the version of Theodotion. What sin have I committed in following the judgment of the churches?"

Here's what we have to keep in mind: the ECF's relied, ultimately, on the doctrines and practices of the churches, and the churches relied on what was handed on to them from the Apostles (Apostolic Tradition), and that Tradition (what was handed on) includes the very Scriptures themselves.

1 Timothy 3:15
If I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

[Elsie]

In other words, you either have both (written and oral Apostolic Tradition) or you have neither.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/excluded-middle

[Elsie]

Catholics have ROME has turned Mary into a Demigoddess.

The members just follow what it teaches.

[Elsie]

He did t even give the scripture. He gave us the church.

His mother said, "Listen to what He says."

Later He says, "Call no man father"

[Elsie]

If they're not credible, you don't have credible Scriptures, either.

Call no man father??

The church was BUILT upon Peter?

Mary comes down from heaven and teaches people?

---

Please; Lady...

Clean your mirror!

[Elsie]

Helvidius had argued against the doctrine of Mary's perpetual virginity by appealing to Tertullian, whom Jerome simply dismissed by pointing out that Tertullian was "not a man of the church."

Ha!

How many of our now PROTESTANT FReepers get this very same treatment from our Catholic Freepers?

"You ain't a CATHOLIC so your words do not matter!"

[Mrs. Don-o]

You misunderstood what I wrote. I was talking about the formation of the Biblical canon.

[Elsie]

Here's what we have to keep in mind: the ECF's relied, ultimately, on the doctrines and practices of the churches, and the churches relied on what was handed on to them from the Apostles (Apostolic Tradition), and that Tradition (what was handed on) includes the very Scriptures themselves.

I've posted numerous times what your ECFs have written about Matthew 16:18.

Can you HONESTLY say that this is what constitutes the 'doctrines and practices of the church'??

[Elsie]

I was talking about the formation of the Biblical canon.

Then quit babbling on about something else in the same reply so your main point can be discerned.

[Elsie]

No, his clincher was always, finally, that This is what the Churches teach.

I've heard that John was told by an angel about what 7 churches in ASIA had been teaching...

[Mrs. Don-o]

If I'm looking for the truths of the Catholic faith, my first choice is to go to faithful Catholics.

But I'd be the first to note that there are some Protestants who are more Catholic than the Pope.

Nevertheless, your comment is not relevant to my post. The context is that in his thoughts on the BVM, Tertullian was relying on his own notions, not on receiving and handing on the actual experience and practice of the Church, based on the Apostles. In this sense, Tertullian and Pope Francis might have a lot in common.

[Elsie]

But I'd be the first to note that there are some Protestants who are more Catholic than the Pope.

I guess being damned with faint praise is better than not being damned at all.

[Elsie]

If I'm looking for the truths of the Catholic faith, my first choice is to go to faithful Catholics.

Where do you go if looking for problems with the Catholic faith?