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Vice Chair of the LP: Service Members are Moralless Murderers (Libertarian)
Jennifer Giorgi ^ | 5/10/17 | Liberty Viral

Posted on 05/12/2017 4:54:36 AM PDT by raccoonradio

It has become very clear in recent weeks that the Libertarian Party Leadership just can’t keep their feet out of their mouths…and like it that way. This should come as no surprise coming from the same party who quotes the Satanic Temple Tenents during A Christian Holy week, sells their principles in a pay to play scheme, or announces that abortion is a non-issue to a party which is clearly divided in the issue.

In the latest incident, Libertarian Party Vice Chairman Arvin Vohra had the following to say regarding troops and veterans.

"A common excuse to join the military, despite disagreeing with every single thing that it does: the military pays for college.

"Translation: I agreed to kill innocent people because I wanted the money.

"That type of decisionmaking is below the lowest threshold of any kind of morality that I know of.

"Financial benefits do not justify killing strangers and destroying countries.

"Before you join the military, the DEA, or other organizations that use violence, first decide if you actually agree with their mission. If you do not, “I wanted the money” is not a moral excuse at all.


Of course the internet reacted in the predictable ways. Some started calling Vohra names. Some stuck by his side. Others tried keeping the peace and helping each other see the other point of view.

We know one thing: active duty troops overwhelmingly supported Gary Johnson, Libertarian candidate for president in 2016. If they are new to the party, what message do you think this sends them, coming from a party figurehead? Many troops (who haven’t murdered anyone) now disagree with conflicts they participated in – both past and present – after seeing things from the inside. They once thought they were doing the right thing. While they might not be proud of the conflicts they were involved in, they are still proud, or at least not completely ashamed, of their service for one way or another. Although the military is used for many atrocities, it also accomplishes some good. With Veteran suicide rates at an all time high, we should be not be prying away the last shred of pride and dignity they may have left. Instead we should be empowering them and sending them forward with a new mission: to fight for liberty.

Mr Vohra should stop to take the temperature of the room before making a statement of this nature. He may or may not be talking to some underage folks who would maybe consider joining the military at some point in the future…who knows. Who he is definitely talking to, however, are tons of active duty service members and Veterans already in the libertarian party who already face adversity from fellow members. Their service usually is what LED them to libertarianism. They look to LP leadership for guidance and direction.

“It’s frustrating because many of us are “converted” in part because of our experiences. I’d say, if we have joined the LP, we don’t agree with the way the military is used either. We were all once less informed and individually minded. Holding our past decisions against us is not conducive to our joint cause.” states one veteran from Tennessee.

“As a registered Libertarian and current reservist I am shocked by the comments made by our vice chair. Personally I think Mr Vohra should step down.

This is not a freedom of speech issue, but rather a fundamental misunderstanding of the armed forces. How am I supposed to explain this to my battle buddies?” states a service member.

A short time ago, Vohra was soliciting from LP Veterans reasons why they enlisted in the military. The responses were thoughtful, honest, and respectful. It seemed as if the LP was finally going to do some smart outreach.

We should have known better… We deserve better.

TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: hatethemilitary; libertarian; military; vohra

1 posted on 05/12/2017 4:54:36 AM PDT by raccoonradio
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To: raccoonradio

Why am I not a Libertarian? Because it’s the landing pad for a broad variety of certifiable nut cases like Gary Johnson and this Vohra being.

2 posted on 05/12/2017 5:06:55 AM PDT by ManHunter (You can run, but you'll only die tired... Army snipers: Reach out and touch someone)
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To: raccoonradio

Wow, that was a really stupid running of the mouth...

3 posted on 05/12/2017 5:17:32 AM PDT by Morpheus2009
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To: raccoonradio

Psychotic. And more than a little bit treasonous.

4 posted on 05/12/2017 5:29:00 AM PDT by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: raccoonradio

This guy sounds almost (but not quite) as hateful towards our troops as Wrong Paul.

5 posted on 05/12/2017 5:31:43 AM PDT by MrEdd (MrEdd)
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To: ManHunter

The Republican party has it’s own share of idiots. The only difference is that they can actually do great damage. (See McCain, Graham, McConnel, etc)

Maybe if the Libertarian Party had more people like you, the dummies would be drowned out and it would attract even more rational, liberty minded individuals.

6 posted on 05/12/2017 5:33:40 AM PDT by nitzy
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To: raccoonradio
Libertarian Party


Drug-addled, faggot-loving, baby-killers (who like smaller government)

7 posted on 05/12/2017 5:45:09 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (The fear of stark justice sends hot urine down their thighs.)
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To: nitzy; All

Looking for some reaction on this from Arvin Vohra’s facebook page. Note who he voted for in ‘08. And he wants Counter Recruiting...

What Vohra says (all of the following is him):
During the last hours, I’ve seen many justifications for joining the military. To avoid confusion, I’ll address them in a single post.

1. I thought I would be fighting for freedom, or to defend the constitution.

If you were a soldier in recent history, you probably weren’t. Instead, you were a person who got tricked by propaganda. That doesn’t make you a hero; it makes you someone who got tricked.

That’s happened to many people. I personally have been tricked by government propaganda. I voted for Obama in 2008. When I learned that I had been tricked, and had encouraged others to do the same foolish action, I decided to work to make amends. I spent thousands of hours helping people see the lie of the duopoly.

If you were tricked by military recruiters, help prevent the same thing from happening to others. Share your experiences, and speak out boldly.

2. Many people don’t care about all that, they just want money for college.

That’s a morally unacceptable position. That’s saying, “I signed up for a job where I might have to kill innocents because I wanted the money.” It’s not new to say, “I idd (sic) violence because I wanted money.” It’s not moral either.

3. A soldier is like a gun. You don’t blame guns when someone uses a gun for mass shootings; blame only the president, not the soldiers who follow his orders.

A soldier is not a gun. A soldier has thoughts, morals, and judgment. If a gun had human level intelligence and then chose to be part of a school shooting, I would blame the gun along with the wielder. When a soldier chooses to follow an order to bomb a school or hospital, I similarly blame the solider along with the politician ordering him.

I know the military makes a big propaganda show of calling soldiers military property, but the fact is slavery was outlawed by the 13th amendment. You are not an object. You are not a thing. You are a human being, with human abilities, and human responsibilities.

4. I still think what the military is doing is right. I’m proud of the work I did/am doing/will do.

In that case, I disagree. I don’t think you are an immoral person, but I do think you have been mislead. Sure, the American army in 1776 did great things. But today’s military is not fighting for our freedom. It’s getting involved in civil wars, and creating blowback.

There are certain parts of the military that are purely defensive, at least in theory. But that theory rarely pans out. My only moral opposition to those is the tax funding, which applies to every government worker and contractor, not just to military.

5. Come to my base and say it to me and my platoon, so I can kick your [butt]

Fighting ideas you dislike with violence is exactly why the military is failing at its current attempt to beat radical Islam with bombs. Ideas are defeated with better ideas. Women’s rights happened through ideas and debates, not bombs. The same hold true of minority rights and even democracy. Beating up individuals doesn’t change minds any more than bombing does.

In the next few days, I will be putting together a working group for Counter Recruiting. The goal is to undue the lies and bluster military recruiters use to dupe young men and women into misusing themselves in the pursuit of immoral wars. All are welcome to join this group.

8 posted on 05/12/2017 5:46:03 AM PDT by raccoonradio
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To: raccoonradio

I find it funny that a libertarian is talking about morals.

9 posted on 05/12/2017 5:47:20 AM PDT by kosciusko51
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To: raccoonradio

And that is why I’m not a Libertarian. Too much pot has damaged to their brains.

The LP should concentrate on freedom issues. Instead they concentrate on drug legalization and make irrational statements on foreign policy.

10 posted on 05/12/2017 5:48:26 AM PDT by Little Ray (Freedom Before Security!)
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To: raccoonradio
Reaction to Arvin Vohra:

Melvin Lopez Hey Arvin, remember us when you need us after we've been taken over by China or Russia. Let's see who defends your one-sided, selfish, childish views of the military.

Jared Johnson It's time to remove this moron from "office" so sick of fakeatarians giving us a s--- name

Amberly Callahan I'm joining the LP because of this post.

John McColly Your being duped by Obama shows what a weak willed person you are. How do you know you haven't been duped by a Libertarian or Liberal into believing this s--- about the military? You obviously never had the balls to join.

11 posted on 05/12/2017 5:50:05 AM PDT by raccoonradio
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To: nitzy

Those guys like McCain and Graham are rah-rah for military action all the time because they get money from the people who build weapons systems and deploy “trainers” to help “rebels” in Syria etc., the defense contractors of the “military industrial complex”.

That’s something libertarians should talk about.

12 posted on 05/12/2017 5:50:42 AM PDT by Nextrush (Freedom is everybody's business: Remember Pastor Niemoller)
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To: ManHunter
Why am I not a Libertarian? Because it’s the landing pad for a broad variety of certifiable nut cases like Gary Johnson and this Vohra being.

Exactly, the Libertarians have some very good ideas and could provide a potent antidote to the pervasive statism in the establishment. People like Ron Paul, who, even when wrong, generally add to the debate. Personally, I wouldn't be one regardless, but I appreciate much of what they bring to the table.

Unfortunately, there are too many nut jobs like this yahoo in the party. It diminishes the brand and alienates otherwise sympathetic people.

13 posted on 05/12/2017 5:50:57 AM PDT by drop 50 and fire for effect ("Work relentlessly, accomplish much, remain in the background, and be more than you seem.)
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To: Little Ray

The joke was that a Libertarian was a Republican who wanted to legalize pot.

14 posted on 05/12/2017 5:51:28 AM PDT by raccoonradio
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To: raccoonradio; All

15 posted on 05/12/2017 5:53:55 AM PDT by raccoonradio
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To: raccoonradio
Daily Mail

There are some things you can never un-see.

One of them is a hefty bearded man strip teasing down to his tiny briefs at the Libertarian party's national convention.

Late entry Livingston County Sheriff candidate James Weeks took the crowd by surprise Sunday as he began to take his clothes off to a tinny soundtrack, that he played from his cell phone.

Weeks took to the stage and after his timer was set, began slowly taking off items of clothing one by one, encouraging the audience to join in with clapping. First he ripped off his tie with abandon, then his shirt, suspenders and finally his shirt and pants - all the way down to his tiny black briefs.

At first the shocked audience cheered and clapped along, but by the end of the two-minute slow tease, even the most liberal members were booing.

But Weeks didn't seem to mind. He continued to jiggle and wiggle and pace up and down the stage, even as a convention manager shouted into a mike: 'Moron! Idiot! You're making a fool out of yourself.'

After the music stopped he said into the mike: 'Sorry, it was a dare. I'm gonna go ahead and drop out.'

He then exited and the host returned to the stage, only to find that Weeks had left his phone on the lectern.

Many took to social media to comment on the spectacle.

16 posted on 05/12/2017 5:58:17 AM PDT by raccoonradio
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To: raccoonradio

What a huge pile of crap.

17 posted on 05/12/2017 6:18:22 AM PDT by JimSEA
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To: raccoonradio

When a Centurian went to Jesus to ask what he had to do to be saved, Jesus did not tell him he had to resign his commission. Jesus said to be satisfied in his pay.

From the Cross, Jesus asked his heavenly Father to forgive them, because they know not what they do. I believe he was talking about the Roman soldiers who, as far as they knew, were executing another criminal.

In Romans, Paul says the government does not wield the sword in vein.

As Christians, we should pray for our leaders. Among the reasons is so our police and military forces will be used for good.

18 posted on 05/12/2017 6:25:45 AM PDT by Redmen4ever
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To: raccoonradio

Arvin Vohra has gotten the sequence of events upside-down. So has author Jennifer Giorgi. Most self-appointed moral arbiters make this mistake.

Here is what must happen, in proper order:

1. Survive.

2. Worry about morality.

Obssessing over how our actions do or don’t conform to Step 2 merely lessens the chances of successfully completing Step 1. Doesn’t matter what the particulars of the “morals” mentioned in Step 2 actually amount to: those who don’t survive contribute nothing to the discussion of morals, nor the establishment of anything morally worthy.

Their very first week, the greenest recruit in the armed forces does more for society, culture, populace, and nation, than any academic, journalist, politician, cleric, intellectual, or “activist” can do in an entire career.

19 posted on 05/12/2017 8:20:42 PM PDT by schurmann
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