Posted on 06/17/2017 5:01:39 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks
Here’s an idea. How about we SCALE BACK the road construction so we don’t have to come up with additional means to PAY FOR IT?
The Zoo Interchange did not need to be leveled and completely redesigned. Quite frankly, I don’t see how the MASSIVE rework is going to help ease any congestion or make things safer one whit. The same can be said for the Marquette Interchange. A ton of effort and taxpayer dollars poured into a complete rework that did nothing to improve safety and decrease congestion. The same can be said about the disaster that is I894 near 27th street. Just who the fu_k thought any of these were a good idea?
Why are we replacing every 4-way intersection in rural Wisconsin with Roundabouts? The one on Hwy 20 outside of Union Grove is littered with crosses, flowers and makeshift memorials. The danger has gone UP at that intersection!
NO TOLLS!!! GO LIVE IN ILLINOIS IF YOU LOVE THE NOTION OF TOLLS EVERYWHERE!
“Full privatization of interstates means just that. Auction off title to the land and improvements - simple.
that’s not a crony capitalist lease. It’s letting the free market do its stuff.”
And then what? Are the rights of way MONOPOLY-protected, as they are in every other case of private highways? If they’re not monopoly protected, then no one will bother bidding on them (as many states have learned).
So much for a “free market”. It will be about as “free market” as Cable TV was in the 1990s...since both will have monopoly protection.
Libertarianism works great - it works great for airlines, it works great for trucking companies, it works great for supermarkets. But regardless of what Ann Rand thinks, you cannot have a “free market” when the resource is by definition - VERY LIMITED. We are not going to allow new, parallel freeways to get built...just as we didn’t allow 10 cable companies to string up telephone poles. So you will have MONOPOLIES.
Maybe you’re into that (or have some other agenda), but most of us are not.
“I love the thought of fully privatized interstates too. One huge problem though. Reducing gas and licencing taxes will never go down.”
If real privatization happens, you’ll paying at least 10 times, possibly 20 times more to drive on Interstates than you pay now. You won’t even notices the gas tax and license fees. Here’s an example from Canada:
https://www.407etr.com/en/tolls/rate-charts/rate-chart-light.html
The rates here come out to about 50 US cents per mile on peak hours, and about 30 US cents per mile on off-peak hours. For comparison, a car getting 20 miles per gallon in the US pays between 2 and 3 cents per mile in gas tax in most states.
The company that owns the Canadian highway simply raises their tolls to keep traffic moving as the population increases...rather than increasing capacity...since increasing capacity costs money, but increasing tolls makes money. So they’re raking it in with monopoly protection. About 10 years ago, the government in Ontario took them to court to try to get a handle on the company, but the contract was iron-clad...the government simply had no recourse - the company could do whatever they wanted.
40 cents per mile to drive more than doubles the operating costs for most cars - there is a LOT OF MONEY to be made there. Right now, with government government ownership of most highways, we get to keep that money - but people who have done the math realize the potential and they’re all over Trump and Congress to legalize it.
You live in a pipe dream... Or are smoking some great stuff.
Since the private contractors have taken over the costs of the turnpike has risen rediculously, if you think private enterprise will always give you the best price and performance you are just as big a fool as someone who believes government is the solution to every problem.
When you sell, lease or contract out public infrastructure you literally hand that private industry a monopoly over a piece of public infrastructure... They didn’t build it, didn’t conceive it, ont have any incentive to care and maintain it as long as their profits continue.
You are being beyond naive. Private industry wants to own and operate a toll road, by all means go out and build yourself one... But the idea that public infrastructure will be better managed by private enterprise is a pipe dream... It’s the flip side whackadoo of the coin to the whackadoos who think government can solve every problem better
Yeah. Right. See how long that reduction lasts.
How stupid do politicians think voters are?
Oh. Wait.
Sorry, Wisconsin. Yer screwed.
BTW...here’s a really good summary of what the Canadians think of that ‘free market’ highway...
https://thebulletin.ca/highway-407-is-a-rip-off-with-high-fees-and-no-benefits-to-ontario/
NO.
> Walker has proposed to fund all four ongoing major highway projects in his budget proposal, keeping their construction on track for the next two years. It would come at the expense of large freeway projects in southeast Wisconsin, which would see a 70 percent funding reduction under the governor’s plan.
In other words, these ongoing projects have 1) exceeded costs or 2) were begun without funding being established, funding being left to annual budgets.
Now additional taxes are required. Not only no, HELL NO.
The bridges on that interchange were starting to become unsafe prior to the rebuild.
As far as I know, the PA Turnpike is not privatized or a PPP. The commission tried to lease the road to a private company about 10 years ago, but the deal fell through.
The skyrocketing tolls are being used to pay back bonds issued both to widen and rebuild the road and to pay the turnpike’s $450M/yr obligation to PennDOT under Act 44. Act 89 ratchets the obligation back to $50M/yr in 2023. Since the turnpike will presumably not have to issue as many bonds then, the toll rate increases will hopefully ease up some.
interstates are not monopolies at all
They will be, once they’re given MONOPOLY PROTECTION as part of the deals being made.
no one is forced to drive on a interstate during rush hour
They’re going to be saying the SAME THING about that colossus that is the Zoo Interchange in ten years. Why rebuild the existing bridges when you can quadruple the price with a complete do-over?
Its like tearing down and rebuilding the house because we’re tired of the drapes. The WIDOT needs to start showing some fiscal restraint.
>
Here’s an idea. How about we SCALE BACK the road construction so we don’t have to come up with additional means to PAY FOR IT?
>
‘Bout time someone said something smart ;)
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The Zoo Interchange did not need to be leveled and completely redesigned. Quite frankly, I don’t see how the MASSIVE rework is going to help ease any congestion or make things safer one whit. The same can be said for the Marquette Interchange. A ton of effort and taxpayer dollars poured into a complete rework that did nothing to improve safety and decrease congestion. The same can be said about the disaster that is I894 near 27th street. Just who the fu_k thought any of these were a good idea?
>
Oh, come now. That’s how they are sold to the ignorant populace. It’s never been about ‘safety’, ‘congestion’, ‘needs’ (and, if so, govt is reactionary, so their ‘plans’ are likely YEARS out of date).
Same here in FL, ripping up just laid roads. Construction that last YEARS for a few miles. Construction that, primarily, occurs during the worst of times (rush hour, not nights). Crony C. be thy name.
Sure, they can walk, or crawl in their cars at 15 MPH, like those without thousands of dollars to spare every year are now forced to do in Toronto...thanks to their ETR-407 toll road MONOPOLY.
Most of us just aren’t into that...and think we can do better, as we’re doing now, by the way - because we have ACCOUNTABILITY for our highways and government-run toll roads. Why the rush to lose that control, as happened in Canada, where they now pay 30 to 50 cents per mile to drive on roads that your ‘free market’ refuses to widen (when jacking up the tolls is much more profitable)?
I know, I know, if we do it ‘your way’, all will work out just fine. I still remember in college people saying the same about Communism - the Soviets, East Germans, Hungarians, Czechs, Albanians, Yugoslavians, Chinese, North Vietnamese, Cambodians, and North Koreans SIMPLY GOT IT WRONG. If we only did it the way these local Communists planned, we would live in utopia.
Same for these ‘free-market’ highways. I don’t even know of a SINGLE EXAMPLE where people have been happy with them...it’s all out there, you might want to research it a bit.
Why not just cut back to one outbound lane going into Illinois and use all of the remaining lanes for inbound traffic? Illinois is going bankrupt. No need to travel there any more. They can't pay for Wisconsin goods and products.
free market capitalism works
but you want socialism
for your interstates
I ran into people like you on this EXACT issue about 20 years ago - they were Randists. But they did grow out of it once they understand that there could NEVER be and never will a ‘free market’ when it comes to highways - or anything even close to a ‘free market’.
So let’s get past that claim - and try to figure out the best way to operate these highways so that the public DOES NOT get taken to the cleaners, as is happening in Toronto TODAY, with their cute little 99 year experiment.
“let the free market do its magic - increase quality, lower costs”
How can you say that, when it’s so obvious that the answer to every problem is always raising taxes?
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