Posted on 09/05/2017 8:57:12 PM PDT by Az Joe
“Never should we celebrate people who killed Americans. You don’t celebrate Nazi’s do you?”
What a jackass. They were heroes, just as the union soldiers were. Funny how the soldiers from both sides had reunions, shook hands, renewed friendships, etc.
But somehow YOU are more wounded and bitter... moron.
I have a feeling if things get bad enough someday, the only way conservatives will be able to ecape left wing tyranny will be to secede from the union.
Ok Yankee, we get it.
No need for insults, foul language, and rudeness. FR is better than that. Now, you say they were heros. Okay with Germans saying Nazis were heros? Or what about the inconvenient fact that lots of folks in south belonged to the KKK. Hero’s too? I mean, seriously, they could very well have early on been Confederate veterans, not their spawn or wanna bes.
And how will they square their hate for those who wanted to leave the Union with the current talk of Calexit?
The left is really full of more crap than usual that southerners were traitors and so are nazis (I don’t like nazis at all BTW)
The left have some nerve — they have been playing footsie with communists and communism since I can remember.
Dude, as soon as you rolled out the Nazi thing, you invoked Godwin’s Law.
Lots of folks in New Jersey and the midwest belonged to the KKK, more than in the south at the time. We’re talking the Margaret Sanger era here, far more recent than Reconstruction.
Are you going to condemn them from your high horse or do you reserve that merely for southern states?
Historically ignorant, petty regionalist nonsense really should have no place on FR. We’re better than that.
“, as the Constitution said nothing about states seceding, The states had the right to secede under the 9th and 10th amendment.”
I’m not a CSA fan boy, and I’m glad we remained one nation, but I agree with you. Nothing in the constitution says that once you join, you must remain forever. That was basically a concept Lincoln came up with. And for one, I’m glad he did.
BUT, that means the Confederates were not traitors. I think any fair telling of the tale is that they had every legal right to secede.
You called many decent and good Americans “Nazis”, and lecture me about rude? And FR without insults and rudeness? LOL. Get real.
American Indians had black slaves.
The Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Creek, many others, bought black slaves, captured escaped black slaves, and used them as labored inferior chattel. When I say they practiced slavery, I am not talking about prisoners, I am talking about slaves who were considered racially inferior by the Indians, had to do slave labor and menial tasks and forced hard work in agriculture. Exactly the same as “Southern” slave owners, of which there were actually few such slave owners in conjunction to the overall population.
Nor was this something they “learned” from “Southerners”. In fact, slavery in Indian culture existed BEFORE the expansion of “white settlers”. It was already in practice among MANY tribes. Now this was NOT the same as the later slavery practice among Indians of buying, selling, capturing, black slaves. But Indians would take members of other tribes and use them as slaves.
Today text books try to call the slaves “prisoners of war”. And claim they did not consider the “prisoners” as inferior. This is totally false and rewriting history. While in some cases the tribe that lost the battle were in fact prisoners, in many cases the losers were taken as slaves, not prisoners, and were NOT considered culturally equal, but rather inferior and in fact racially inferior - they could identify one race of Indian from another.
The slaves had to grovel on the ground to collect acorns, etc., and often had one of their feet cut off to prevent escape of the slave. If a woman was pregnant at the time of capture and then gave birth without managing to starve to death as a slave, they baby would be considered a slave if the baby would even survive.
In the “Trail of Tears”, many of the Indians forced their slaves to go with them. And in the Oklahoma Territory, one could argue it was the American Indians who introduced slavery into the territory and not “whites”.
Whites would also consider Indians as inferior, no doubt about it, but many also like Indians and in fact married them. But both Indians and blacks were not particularly fond of marrying an African. Indians carte blanche pretty much considered any African as a savage and should be enslaved.
Whatever the case of human nature, “Southerners” should not feel guilty anymore than Indians - it is part of world history. Slavery was all over the world at the time the Founding Fathers set in motion the ideas and system of government that would eventually end slavery in the United States. In fact, even if the South had won the Civil War, most actual historians feel that slavery would have been concluded and repealed by the Confederacy within 15 years.
I recently ordered one of the many historical authorship’s that document American Indian slavery culture and their black slaves. I ordered it from eBay:
Black Slaves, Indian Masters
by Prof Barbara Krauthamer
Publication Year: 2015
ISBN: 1469621878
“Choctaw and Chickasaw Indians bought, sold, and owned Africans and African Americans as slaves, a fact...”
Maybe we should take down every statue of an American Indian?
How about removing depictions of American Indians from our collectible currency/coins?
Was Pocahontas a slave ow, ner? Or perhaps a female slave?
Did you know that American Indians even had some WHITE slaves? Yes! Olive Oatman was taken in by the Mojave tribe after her family was killed by them and was enslaved as their servant, tattooed on her chin, her younger sister Mary Ann (also tattooed) died from starvation as a slave.
Take down those American Indian statues! Slave owners!
Powers not specifically delegated were reserved unto the States or the People. This nation was founded in secession, from Great Britain. The very notion of “perpetual allegiance” was roundly mocked in the years leading up to the American Revolution. The Confederate States had every right to secede, for whatever reason they saw fit. This, they were not allowed to do and a bloody, deadly war was fought. The two lasting legacies of that war would be the ending of the institution of slavery in this country, oddly ending last in the Union States, and, the birth of the Federal leviathan state that has continued to grow exponentially to the chokehold it has upon the populace today.
Yes, I don’t care where or who, I universally object to display and flying the Confederate and Nazi and Islamic flags and see them basically equal in their representation of hate, bigotry, and violence. If someone working for me displayed them, flew them, put them on their car or clothes, I would fire them. None of my friends would find this action or opinion surprising or objectionable. We have zero tolerance for hate, bigotry, and violence. We are Republican and conservative. Sad that when these flag waving folks left the Democratic Party, where they belonged and were long welcomed, that some shortsighted Republicans gave them welcome.
No one is calling, or would call, the CALEXT folks traitors.
As long as Congress approves they can. BUT if the government becomes oppressive, not only do states have a right to seceded, they have a DUTY to!
“....Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,...”
My ancestor fought for the Union, but all involved were Americans. And to my mind there's no shame in recognizing that preservation of the rights of the States to be sovereign, a principle lost with the replacement of the Articles of Confederation with a federal republican constitution, and a general hatred in the South of the "mongrel" Northerners, probably had more to do with their secession than trying to preserve slavery.
On the other hand, the attack on Ft. Sumter and the invasion of Maryland to try and take Washington (First Bull Run, anybody?) actually launched the shooting war and gave Lincoln every excuse he needed to use the ire of the more populous and industrial North to pursue the goal of preserving the Union and Constitution. Slavery was an ugly issue but of importance to only a minority in the North. To most not worth dying for. But fire on American troops and try to take the capital? Time to fight.
The Confederates believed God and the right was on their side, and so did the Yankees who beat them down under numbers and resources they couldn't hope to match. In the final analysis, the South picked a fight they could not win and paid a very heavy price for it. But no one should doubt their courage or that once it was all ended it was time to reunite as Americans. A unity that was and is anathema to the race baiters and wannabe class warriors in the still seditious Democrat Party. If you want to find traitors you don't have to look back to the 1860's.
“...Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,
“That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,..”
The Right of the People to alter or abolish it! BINGO!!!
“Or what about the inconvenient fact that lots of folks in south belonged to the KKK. Hero’s too? I mean, seriously, they could very well have early on been Confederate veterans, not their spawn or wanna bes.”
You are a glittering jewel of ignorance of the facts. The KKK didn’t exist during the war. And yes, a few dead enders in the South used it as a terror vehicle for a time after the war.
But Consider that Nathan Bedford Forrest himself turned against it and became one of Americas first true civil rights leaders.
http://tennessee-scv.org/ForrestHistSociety/forrest_speech.html
And as you think the KKK was southern, you might want to look at how enormous the KKK got in northern states through the 1920s. In the 1920s Ohio alone had membership of over 300,000.
So read a little history. Then get back to us someday. Reasonable people can disagree on the civil war. But only an idiot calls the southerners Nazis or hates the Union army. Every one of them was fighting for an America they believed in. They were more alike than different.
Besides from that law, over 50,000 old veterans of North and South got together to commentate the Battle of Gettysburg in 1913. Their old flags flew side by side. President Wilson spoke to them. Two of my Union army serving ancestors attended.
Almost two thousand surviving veterans returned in 1938. Hundreds of thousands of younger people attended the proceedings. President F. Roosevelt dedicated a peace memorial which honored both sides.
The US government put out stamps and coins to honor the veterans and such generals as Robert E. Lee
President Eisenhower wrote a letter in 1960 defending his displaying of a portrait of Lee in his office.
Now those who wish to take over our elected national government have started by making an issue of America’s confederate heritage and the long peace between North and South
What an idiot you are!!
In 1975, Lee’s full rights of citizenship were posthumously restored by a joint congressional resolution effective June 13, 1865. Senator Leahy was a Senator. Nancy Pelosi’s father was extolling a Southerner without citizenship. As a non-citizen he had statues erected. Sam Houston was in and out of citizenship status too, I believe.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.