Posted on 03/16/2018 12:22:10 AM PDT by lowbuck
Rand Paul launched a typically obnoxious attack on Gina Haspel today. Here is one account:
“To really appoint the head cheerleader for waterboarding to be head of the CIA? How can you trust somebody who did that to be in charge of the CIA,” Paul wondered, adding, “To read of her glee during the waterboarding is just absolutely appalling.”
Paul was referring to an account of a waterboarding session with suspected al Qaeda lieutenant Abu Zubaydah, who was subjected to so-called enhanced interrogation techniques now widely considered to be torture. ., .
The problem is that this conduct appears to be misattributed to Haspel. A U.S. intelligence official provided this statement:
Senator Paul’s claims today about Gina Haspel are not only inaccurate, but contradicted by the very source materials he relied on. The Senator quotes liberally from page 263 of James Mitchell’s book “Enhanced Interrogation” in describing the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah in claiming that Ms. Haspel was the CIA Chief of Base who was present and expressing joy at this interrogation. A reading of the same page demonstrates that the Chief of Base present and quoted during this event was a man, not Gina Haspel. This is just one of many false claims about Ms. Haspel being peddled by the uninformed. . . snip
(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...
Wrong. ISIS is a dedicated bunch of Islamist zealots and they are not finished yet.
Your accepting RTs take. It’s merely propaganda.
bkmk
I’ll tell you something that we don’t usually bother telling outsiders.
You’re typically emotional about warfare. If your torture paradigm were allowed—which it isn’t again—men like myself but younger, would start killing PWs and taking affiliated, nearby civilians with them. The soldiers would grind up every living thing in their path on enemy soil, babies and dogs included. And it works both ways. But if the civilian peanut gallery wants that enough, though, it will be arranged.
Good soldiers only get very angry if their buddies are tortured and resolve to fight more efficiently afterwards (kill ‘em all). When fighting, good soldiers are not emotional at all—only efficient. For good soldiers, torturing is a waste of time. It gets in the way of killing more.
Here’s what keeps us from killing civilians at home: morality and training. We are far less likely to feel or act on any impulse to murder our own people or other innocents. That’s because killing is no mystery to us. It’s not intriguing or fascinating.
We don’t wonder about what it would be like. It’s simply imprinted more solidly in our minds that killing innocent friendlies is wrong and has no allure of mystery or the unknown. And we were cleared, so that others can be assured that we won’t have sadistic or other abnormal impulses.
Although we’re trained killers, we have a stronger, more dependable off/on switch, so to speak, than most civilians have. We’re more stable in that sense.
That’s why I call BS on the canard that soldiers commonly have “PTSD.” It’s really rare for soldiers and a much more common problem for civilians.
One key for civilians to better understand combat soldiers (maybe less than 5% of our Army), is to realize that they are not like prison guards, civilian police private security guards (except for the few individuals in those groups who have been combat soldiers).
There was a successful military leader in ancient Rome, who said that he would rather have freshly trained soldiers who had drilled in combat exercises many times (a thousand times or something like that) than those who were experienced in combat. Because to those who had done so many drills without previous battle experience, the first battle was like nothing more than an uninhibited, bloody exercise.
It’s easy enough for men to be trained to torture people, too. But if you value civilian lives on either side and want to avoid real wars, don’t do it.
Another thing too many civilians fail to understand. The more we avoid preparing for nuclear warfare, the more likely it will be. Another thing, yet. Invasions and occupations will follow the nuclear exchanges. So civilians here should be concerned about how prisoners and civilians will be treated.
And another... From criminology, criminals don’t care about consequences. That’s one of the mental characteristics that make them criminals.
“One key for civilians to better understand combat soldiers (maybe less than 5% of our Army), is to realize that they are not like prison guards, civilian police private security guards (except for the few individuals in those groups who have been combat soldiers).
There was a successful military leader in ancient Rome, who said that he would rather have freshly trained soldiers who had drilled in combat exercises many times (a thousand times or something like that) than those who were experienced in combat. Because to those who had done so many drills without previous battle experience, the first battle was like nothing more than an uninhibited, bloody exercise.
It’s easy enough for men to be trained to torture people, too. But if you value civilian lives on either side and want to avoid real wars, don’t do it.
Another thing too many civilians fail to understand. The more we avoid preparing for nuclear warfare, the more likely it will be. Another thing, yet. Invasions and occupations will follow the nuclear exchanges. So civilians here should be concerned about how prisoners and civilians will be treated.
And another... From criminology, criminals don’t care about consequences. That’s one of the mental characteristics that make them criminals.”
Thank you, yes, you are right.
Torture is a loaded word. Its enhanced interrogation, in the technical sense.
But, you’re right, soldiers do not utilize enhanced interrogation. That is left for intelligence operatives and some highly trained special operations warriors.
At this time Waterboarding is illegal. But there are other means, which are just as effective as waterboarding, and those techniques will be used covertly, if national security is threatened.
The key is effectiveness when dealing people who will kill thousands at a time and potentially millions.
We only got Osama Bin Laden due to waterboarding Khalid Sheik Muhammad. It was effective. Thank God, there are violent men willing to due things, so that we all can live relatively safe lives.
Only libtards or liberaltarians oppose doing what is necessary to get information out of terrorist scumbags to save the lives of the innocent.
You'd be one of the few that agrees with Obama's isolationist strategy.
Yes, the US must influence foreign policy for national security purposes.
Liberaltarian jackasses aren't much different than Obama on the issue of foreign policy.
America First doesn't equate to isolationism.
Duh because Iran is a threat to national security.
Are you antisemitic?
Of course not. My dislike is for Israel's foreign policy and our favoring them and Saudi Arabia. My dislike is not for Jewish people, or their right to practice their religion and culture. I also acknowledge the rights of MidEastern countries to practice their religions and cultures and choose their own leaders.
His what? Everything he did in regime change and interference was an extension of what GWB started. Attempting to mold the whole world to meet globalist agenda is hardly "isolationist".
Am I an isolationist? Yeah. I'm for respecting the sovereignty and borders of ALL nations. Our troops should be protecting our borders. We should be opposed whenever a nation, friend or foe, violates the national integrity of another nation, friend or foe. Regime change initiatives, including training and financing rebel forces opposed to their nation are something I oppose.
He withdrew from Iraq too early and turned most of the country over to ISIS. Everything Bush predicted would happen if we left too early happened. It's brain dead decision and put this country and its citizens at far greater risk of terrorism.
Iran obtaining a nuclear weapon is absolutely a threat to national security and should not be allowed.
The brain dead decisions were regime change initiatives.
The information gained that way is unreliable, everyone knows that.
Everything he did benefit Islamic fundamentalism and that put Americans at increase risk and lead to the slaughter of religious minorities in the middle east.
You're spewing liberal and McCain talking points.
What everyone knows is that waterboarding lead to information that lead to our military finding Osama Bin Laden. Even Leon Panetta admitted that.
Go over to the Daily Kos if you're going to spew this liberal bullshit.
How are religious minorities in the ME and northern Africa doing after regime change? It does seem regime change brings only chaos for those who live in the inflicted countries.
“You’re spewing liberal and McCain talking points.
What everyone knows is that waterboarding lead to information that lead to our military finding Osama Bin Laden. Even Leon Panetta admitted that.
Go over to the Daily Kos if you’re going to spew this liberal bullshit.”
I am “spewing” what I was taught by senior Army officers when I was in the JAG corps in the 80s, genius. The principles are also the foundation of our criminal justice system—”confessions” gained through torture are inherently unreliable. Why do you think we aren’t using a rack like in Merry Olde England? Use the brains God gave you, things’ll go better for ya.
We've become a nation of pussies, not willing to do what is necessary to save innocent lives.
You are wrong. I am a lawyer and no tortured confession produces anything worthwhile.
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