Posted on 04/10/2018 9:38:06 AM PDT by rktman
HAS TO? Yeah, okay. I’m sure that happens at each and every transaction. LOL!
Look how “high” Hawaii is on the list. Srsly?
Yes, I noticed that one also. Just the placement of Hawaii, juxtaposed with the placement of Texas, tells me that this list is pretty worthless.
Exactly.
Interesting.
“Even though firearms registration is not required, all the ATF 4473 forms are maintained by all licensed Firearms Dealers indefinitely.
The ATF can at any time compel a dealer to hand them over for review under the guise of an “audit”.
When a dealer sells the business or retires I believe he/she is obligated to hand over all 4473 forms to the ATF.
So there is a “defacto” registration already in existence ... unfortunately.” [CapnJack, post 11]
” ‘the ATF’s National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record’
Can someone elaborate? Where is the authority given to have a Federal firearms registry?” [Tench_Coxe, post 40]
I can shed a little light on some of it - I was employed part-time as transfer records clerk, by a small family-owned dealership until about 18 months ago.
There is no “National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record”, in the sense of a centrally kept, continually updated list of guns and who owns them. Looks like another case of some semi-educated journalist scribbling down terms they did not understand, making more mistakes in their draft, and then submitting their copy to equally ignorant editors, who make whimsical changes.
Individual dealers are required to keep a permanently bound book, formally called the Receipt & Disposition (R&D) book (routinely called the “logbook”), in which they record the make, model, caliber, and type of firearm, serial number (if any), who they got it from (distributor, manufacturer, private citizen, etc), and the date; that’s the “Receipt” entry. When the firearm is sold, destroyed, or otherwise disposed of, they record the date, plus name & address of the party it was transferred to.
The ATF Form 4473 is more of an identification verification and background-check form. After the prospective buyer fills out their details, the name & personal identification info are phoned to the FBI’s National Instant Check System; while the dealer’s clerk waits on the line, the NICS operator performs a records check, then gives the clerk one of three responses: “Approved,” “Delayed,” or “Denied.” If it’s the first, the transfer (sale) may proceed. If it’s the second, the transfer is placed on hold for a specified period (typically a couple business days; I forget the exact figure) while additional background research is performed. If it’s the third response, the transfer is not permitted. Records of denied transfers are required to be kept separately, and the duration of retention of the Form 4473 in question is only five years.
Prospective purchasers given a NICS denial are permitted to legally appeal the decision, through specific BATFE procedures.
The dealer is required to retain Forms 4473 for a specified period of time (something like 20 years), after which they may be destroyed, supposedly to reduce the logistic burden of pwperwork storage (dealers with small sales volume are encouraged to keep Forms 4473 indefinitely). The R&D book is required to be kept indefinitely.
[Gunsmiths are required to have a Federal Firearms License, even if they do not buy and sell guns. They too are required to keep a permanent record of all guns they receive for repair, including the name & address of the owner, make, model, caliber, serial number, and type of gun, date of receipt, and date when it was returned to the owner. Repaired guns may not be surrendered to anyone except the owner, or whoever brought the gun to the gunsmith originally. Transfer to any other person must be recorded on ATF Form 4473, and approval must be obtained via NICS.]
When a dealership goes out of business, all logbooks and Forms 4473 are required to be turned in to the BATFE Records Section (or whatever its name is). The dealer I worked for had been in gun sales since the early 1950s, and had logbooks dating back to the 1970s.
Supposedly, there is a central records repository, in WV or someplace; it’s only a paperwork warehouse at present (or so it’s said). BATFE is barred by specific act of Congress from keeping an automated list, but just what they actually do is of course open to question. The agency does perform “audits” of dealerships every several years, supposedly to ensure compliance with rules and adequacy of documentation, but they complain periodically that they are short of funds and people to support these operations, and laugh aloud at the idea that they have enough time & personnel to automate the paper records that have been shipped to them from defunct dealerships.
In compliance with the National Firearms Act of 1934 and subsequent legislation, BATFE does maintain a central list of “NFA Registered Devices:” machine guns, suppressors, short-barreled rifles & shotguns, smoothbore handguns, and a catch-all category called “any other weapon”. These are the Federally regulated items that require the submission of fingerprints, a photo, background information, local law enforcement approval, and payment of transfer tax (most commonly $200.00) before BATFE will approve transfer.
Forum members are warned that my information may not be current. And I have discussed Federal agency rules and procedures only; state and local laws often differ.
Thanks for breaking it down.
I suspected a lot of the points you made. Also buttresses my suspicion about the drive behind "universal background check" or "closing the gun show loophole" or whatever other euphemism is used. The Feds may claim not to be keeping a database, but the Left is trying to capture transfers of firearms (especially those acquired pre-NICS or in the case of post NICS those given away or sold privately).
Point is, to what end? For me, that question is largely rhetorical (See California and Lockyear, or New York State post SAFE act).
The only guns I had to register were handguns that I either purchased myself or inherited when my dad died......rifles and shotguns not required.
It isn’t us who are silent but the underhanded, illegal attempt to destroy the President.
Unfortunately the Right does not do anything about its concerns unlike the Left which can turn out thousands at the drop of a hat. So it looks like no one supports the Right and the Left shows the feelings of the entire country except for a handful of nutcases.
That was it! How did you know?
“...buttresses my suspicion about the drive behind “universal background check” or “closing the gun show loophole” or whatever other euphemism is used....” [Tench_Coxe, post 88]
Federal law does not regulate transfer of firearms between private citizens. This is a central complaint of those who want tighter control.
State and local law can and does regulate such transfers. California performs the most regulation; it has created what is essentially a parallel system, licensing dealers on its own, and banning all transfers unless handled with dealer as middleman. Applies to dealers in other states as well; no dealer may ship firearms into California unless they are on the California Attorney General’s “approved” list. Many firms quit doing business in California as a consequence.
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