Posted on 06/15/2018 9:28:49 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
It goes without saying that Democrats would view President Trump's North Korean negotiations quite differently than Republicans, but I was honestly surprised by the strong negative reaction of Trump critics on the right.
Don't get me wrong, some Trump critics on the right reflexively oppose everything he does or says, but my gut reaction when first learning of the summit was that even they would grudgingly acknowledge this as a positive development. But their reaction was viscerally negative, harsh, cynical, pessimistic and absolute. Either I overestimated their capacity for some fairness concerning Trump or I am radically wrong in how I interpret the summit results.
I have witnessed an ontological certitude -- both intellectual and moral -- from a certain type of conservative Trump critic. These critics not only are sure of their beliefs, but seem equally sure that conservative Trump supporters must have an ulterior motive because they couldn't possibly retain their principles and support him. I believe they are way off base -- their judgment clouded by their bias against Trump -- but I don't doubt that they believe they are doing what is right. However, they won't reciprocate the benefit of the doubt.
They often smear conservative Trump supporters as cultists -- saying we would abandon our principles, even our commitment to national security, to support Trump or cover up his missteps or tweets. There may be some Trump supporters who appear that way, but rarely is this a cultish phenomenon, any more than is the loyalty of supporters of other strong political figures, such as Presidents Obama and Reagan.
I think the attraction to Trump is grounded in an abiding patriotism. His supporters are deeply concerned about the leftist assault on America as founded and the left's dedication to completing its fundamental transformation of this nation. I can't deny there's a charisma factor, but if Trump had preached anything but a singularly pro-American message, his campaign wouldn't have gotten off the ground.
Now, concerning North Korea: Yes, Trump exaggerated when he tweeted that North Korea is no longer a nuclear threat, but it didn't unsettle me, because I know he didn't mean it literally. We know from everything else he said that he is approaching this soberly and has the long view in mind. A national security hawk, he is aware of the traps and North Korea's history of deceit. He will insist on verification. And he has surrounded himself with very serious and brilliant foreign policy advisers devoted to America's national security.
I've never done this, but let me share some of my tweets on why I am very upbeat about Trump's negotiations with Kim Jong Un so far.
"I'm not sure, but it seems to me that the different reactions to Trump's NK negotiations this week, especially among those on the right, are largely attributable to people's predispositions about Trump personally -- significantly more so even than other issues & it's fascinating."
"I think there's a major difference between Trump rejoicing at NK's promises & Clinton or Obama doing so. Whatever else you think about Trump, he is a patriot & is committed to America's security & those priorities transcend his desire to just make a deal, unlike Obama & Clinton."
"It was as if Obama was so obsessed with making a deal that he'd virtually sell us out to do so -- not virtually, he actually did in some respects. No way I believe Trump would do that, on inspections or anything else. I am sure many Trump skeptics will scoff at this assessment."
"People who are savaging Trump because nothing concrete is done yet are spitting in the wind. It's impossible that anything concrete could be done yet. Those criticizing any deal because of difficulties in verifiability are also just naysayers. Of course there will be difficulties."
"How is it legitimate to criticize Trump's outline of a plan on verifiability concerns when those steps have yet to be specified? Just calm down and let the process unfold. If Trump doesn't ensure verifiability then or is lax about it, go after him by all means. I think he will."
"I also think there is a real chance that Kim believes Trump might take military action if Kim betrays us and goes forward. There is little chance he or his predecessors would have feared that with Democrat appeasement presidents."
"In the end, what are the critics kvetching about? Seems to me their criticism is way more premature than Trump's celebration. It is inconceivable that much more could have been done substantively than was done in the first meeting and Trump said much work remains."
"Is there even one leftist critic who would oppose a Democrat president trying to work toward denuclearization? They didn't complain when Obama's [Iran] deal was completely done and he'd given away the farm. Trump's deal is just in outline form & he's given away nothing -- not yet."
"I understand people freaking out over Trump's tweet on this, but do you REALLY believe this means he won't do everything he can to follow up -- and ensure adequate security measures are implemented, or no deal? Because I do, so his optimistic tweet is just that & nothing more."
"If Trump didn't give a da-- about America's national security I'd be very skeptical. But I am convinced America's security is his foremost priority here. That is why I'm not worried -- like I would be big time with Obama. And I'm right. Yep, I'm right on this."
"It seems that some conservative Trump critics fear that conservative Trump supporters would compromise their priorities -- like national security -- to support Trump even if he were jeopardizing it. No way. We support him, among other reasons, precisely because he's a security hawk."
"We are in the beginning stages of a process that has started off with great promise. Nothing more; nothing less."
"If Trump didn't give a da-- about America's national security I'd be very skeptical. But I am convinced America's security is his foremost priority here. That is why I'm not worried -- like I would be big time with Obama. And I'm right. Yep, I'm right on this."
"It seems that some conservative Trump critics fear that conservative Trump supporters would compromise their priorities -- like national security -- to support Trump even if he were jeopardizing it. No way. We support him, among other reasons, precisely because he's a security hawk."
"We are in the beginning stages of a process that has started off with great promise. Nothing more; nothing less."
"If Trump didn't give a da-- about America's national security I'd be very skeptical. But I am convinced America's security is his foremost priority here. That is why I'm not worried -- like I would be big time with Obama. And I'm right. Yep, I'm right on this."
"It seems that some conservative Trump critics fear that conservative Trump supporters would compromise their priorities -- like national security -- to support Trump even if he were jeopardizing it. No way. We support him, among other reasons, precisely because he's a security hawk."
"We are in the beginning stages of a process that has started off with great promise. Nothing more; nothing less."
While this may be true, it is far more likely someone who dislikes or is neutral about Trump will see the North Korea summit as a positive than someone who is pro-Trump seeing it as a negative.
An influence perhaps; determinative, no. My own view of the matter is colored by the perception of a 68-year war that has killed numerous people long after the shooting nominally ceased, and the knowledge that a regime that might charitably be described as unstable was actively pursuing nuclear weapons. My views toward the President don’t really enter into it, beyond the fact that this one actually got some action instead of rhetoric on the matter. If we are to believe CNN on the matter, “any” President “could” have done it. (If we are to believe CNN in anything, on the other hand, we’re nuts.)
My own view is colored by the PAST HISTORY of North Korea’s “agreements” ( note the quotes ) with past Presidents ( e.g. Bill Clinton via Madeline Albright ).
They did not keep their agreements then — why should they believe them now? As the saying goes : “Once Bitten, Twice Shy”.
I just hope we don’t keep our guard down just because of a smile and a handshake and some verbal assurances on their part.
Consider this process a treatment, not a cure. But you’ll never reach a cure if you never treat the problem. And no one other than a feckless Democrat or State Department troll, but there I repeat myself, is blind to negotiating partners possibly reneging.
It's the latter. The Trump Kim summit was on par with the Madeleine Abright, Kim Jong Il champagne toast. It's not a liberal - conservative thing, it's a refusing to learn from history thing.
Well, what has history taught us?
It tells us that they have stabbed us in the back more than once after talking very nicely.
Should we expect this time to be different?
If the answer is no (and that’s the most practical answer given our history in dealing with them), what is the most practical thing we should do next?
Lol, wait!! You seem to actually believe we should have had in hand at the end of a 5 hr meeting, a signed detailed agreement specifying time limits for each step of the denuclearization process, methods of verification and all other minutiae involved in an agreement such as this.....right?
You seem ignorant of the fact this attempt is ALREADY different in that unlike previous attempts we have given up ZERO again we have given up ZERO, with ALL sanctions still in place where they will remain until complete denuclearization has taken place and has been fully verified.
You should try to keep up...really.
One’s politics is sort of secondary when you are getting obliterated by a nuclear explosion. There is no rational reason for anyone to object to what Trump is doing wrt NK. Everyone should hope he succeeds.
I expect nothing from the Kim’s because nothing is what we have gotten from them after every agreement. These periodic thaws are always delaying tactics that they use to their benefit and our detriment. Pinning your hopes on Trumps charisma is no kind of strategy.
OK, so explain any possible REAL downside to what Trump has so far accomplished. Kim gas promised this, that and the other thing and so far has even actually done some of them.
Already this is MORE than any other president has accomplished and unlike Clinton and Obama this president has left AL sanctions in place with a promise of NO RELIEF until denuclearization is complete and totally verified.
Again, show me a downside.
smear us if you will, but don’t call us ‘cultists’. We’re so much more. We’re Deplorables.
I would say you are judging the summit from a few broadcasted hours.
As referenced, the Agreement that Lil Kim and Trump signed builds on the previous, N/S Panmunjom Declaration. The Panmunjom Dec was a product of months of quiet diplomacy that continues, just as the diplomacy leading up to the Trump summit continues. In the Panmunjom document is verbiage for complete and verifiable denuclearization. This has never been offered before.
“South and North Korea confirmed the common goal of realizing, through complete denuclearization, a nuclear-free Korean Peninsula. South and North Korea shared the view that the measures being initiated by North Korea are very meaningful and crucial for the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula and agreed to carry out their respective roles and responsibilities in this regard. South and North Korea agreed to actively seek the support and cooperation of the international community for the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.”
August 15 is the date of NK’s “liberation day”. At this time we should see, at a special ceremony, the efforts of the Intl Red Cross in locating and reuniting family members. If it goes off as planned then this also is something we have never seen.
Another item that makes this different is the interest and behind-the-scenes work done by both Russia and China to reduce the nuclear threat posed by N. Korea. Sure, some of it is economic, both having tired of supporting NK and more than willing to pass some of that burden off onto the rest of the world, but also those two wanting to be the only major nuclear powers in their hood. So it’s not just America standing alone that is helping to push Rocketman into the light; it’s world pressure and, again, something we’ve never seen before. But there wouldn’t be world pressure if one man hadn’t stood up and worked to make it happen.
Looks like it hasn't changed a bit...
What a surprise to find it back bashing President Trump...
Like all the never Trumpers, the more success MAGA has the more their hatred grows.
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Good idea. But guess what? Even if the little tyrant reneges we have lost zero, Nada, zip NOTHING!
WHY? Because unlike zero and the bent one we offered no incentives BEFORE our demands were met and fully verified.
It’s a win, win for the great MAGA!
Already hedging
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