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To: Fai Mao

Why do we still hear so much about the underground church then, and the state interfering in religious ceremonies? Do Chinese Christians now have access to the Bible in Mandarin? Are they free to worship in any Christian denomination or do they have to attend a state-approved church?

As much as I detest the ideology that is Islam, I don’t think locking them up for re-education is the way forward. This is the communist way though, the state rules supreme.


14 posted on 08/11/2018 1:41:08 AM PDT by winslow
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To: winslow

China’s communists are deeply afraid of any institution that may win the hearts and minds of Chinese citizens. That is why they are pressing heretic Francis to sell-out the Catholic faithful in China. Communism is evil at its core and always will be.


21 posted on 08/11/2018 3:53:32 AM PDT by littleharbour ("You take on the intel community they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you" C. Schumer)
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To: winslow

You can buy a Bible in almost any bookstore in China. I used to watch “The Hour of Power” on TV in Wuhan as a Hong Kong station (the now defunct ATV) was included in the cable TV.

The big catch in Chinese law is that printed matter has to be PRINTED in the PRC. It is illegal to take ANY printed matter from outside the PRC into China. A newspaper, a magazine, a comic book will get you a fine or land you in jail. This is why the silly people that smuggle Bibles and tracks into China are arrested. It isn’t that it is just religious material - it is that it was printed outside China and that they are NOT Chinese citizens. If they were Chinese citizens they could go to a bookstore and buy those materials and pass them out on the street without much, if any official problem.

Also, all printed matter, if it is in Chinese, must be in the “Simplified” characters, not the traditional characters used in Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Singapore. This may seem a bit picky but the people in the mainland, unless they are pretty old, can’t read the traditional characters well anyway. It is sort of like giving someone from Portugal a book that is printed in French and then wondering why they can’t read it.

It is also not generally permitted to conduct any type of religious proselytization, Buddhist, Islamic, Protestant, Catholic if you are not a Chinese citizen. None native missionaries are illegal unless you jump through several hoops. I know people that that have done it, it can be done but you have to start by having the local church ASK for you to come for a specific purpose. It can be done if you present it right. Unlike 40 or 50 years ago the government does not really interfere that much, if at all with the Three-Self Protestant Churches. The Chinese Catholics are a little different issue. But even there, Jaing Zamin’s wife used to attend the Chinese Catholic Mass at the Beijing Cathedral almost every week though he only came for the midnight Christmas Mass.

Here is my personal story about the way that persecution works in the PRC. Others may have different experiences.

One of the legal Three-Self Protestant churches in Wuhan where I studied for the Ph.D. needed to expand their building. To do this they needed a permit. But, to get to the front of the line to register for the permit they had to pay a bribe. Since they didn’t pay the bribe they never got to the front of the line to obtain the permit, thus, no new building. They were being passively persecuted for being honest and obeying the law.

What did they do? They found out where the official asking for the bribe lived and rented a flat next door to his home. They evangelized him. The man then stopped collecting bribes and they got the permit. It took them 5 years to get a building permit.

Another story, also true. My wife and I have a very good friend from Beijing. Her husband, a PLA AIr Force officer left her when she had a baby girl rather than a boy. (The one-child policy in action) She was, understandably very depressed and as a graduate student at Beijing Normal University walked into the university library and checked out a Bible, read it and became a Christian. She evangelized her parents and her daughter. Her father left his job in the Civil Service and started a Three-Self (Legal) church in their neighborhood. The man forfeited his pension and healthcare to do this. Here is the kicker - The Bible was part of a set of books provided to the university by (Choke gasp)Bill & PIAPS Clinton as a tax deduction to allow them to pocket leftover campaign funds as he was leaving office. We don’t normally think of Bill Clinton as a Christian evangelist but he is the only president I know off who, by his actions has aided in the evangelization of China and whose donated materials have resulted in the establishment of a local church there.

There are probably more Christians as a percentage of the population in China than there are in the US. This is especially true since more people attend church than are members. The Tree-Self Church I attended in Wuhan had 5 services every Sunday with over 400 people in each service. Yet, the church had only 250 members.

Many Christians in China don’t advertise their faith prominently because they do face low-level discrimination and hostility, especially within their families. The churches, because they are supposed to be self-funded, self-governed and self-propagating face severe issues with pastor training, fundraising and leadership and discipleship training. At times they are placed in difficult legal positions. But, it appears to me that whatever the official number of Christians in China is listed at that number is short by at least 1/3 to 1/2.

I lived in China and Hong Kong for 17-years. My wife is from Shanghai.

Once again others may have had different experiences than me. I think China is probably less free than it was 15 years ago when I was there. But, having lived there, it isn’t really worse than New Jersey.


34 posted on 08/11/2018 9:36:18 AM PDT by Fai Mao (There is no rule of law in the US until The PIAPS is executed.)
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