Posted on 08/17/2018 8:40:24 AM PDT by wardaddy
You tell me that I have to do good works in order to gain salvation.
And in the next breath you tell me that your religion isn’t based on salvation by works.
Wanna explain, or shall I just chuckle for the rest of the day at the logic knot you tied yourself in?
Objective sin? That’s a new one on me. I have to admit, I never heard that one before. The objective was, to tell them the truth. I don’t think that endangers their salvation, since I am sure they never had it in the first place.
But since you acted out of error of which you are not aware, there was not conscious participation in that evil. You were a blind trying to lead another, thinking that perchance they are blind as well.
Error? I guess that would be a matter of opinion. I was pretty conscious of what I was doing. It was obvious to me, that they were blind. You should have seen the blank stares I got, while presenting the gospel to them.
The best thing for you to do is to talk to a priest about your fall into Protestant heresy. He will invite you to sacramental confession. Then, examine your conscience attentively. If you feel remorse, go. During that, mention this episode and express your sorrow over it.
Gee whiz bro, it just happened yesterday. It’s kind of hard to work up any remorse and sorrow, in such a short period of time. 😇 I wonder, however, if I were to swim the Tiber, and go to Sacramental confession, do you suppose I would have to go back to salvation by works, and give up my assurance of salvation? I really like and thoroughly enjoy my assurance of salvation. It would be very difficult to give that up. Maybe I could secretly have assurance of salvation, as long as I don’t tell the priest. Do you suppose that would be OK? Cuz I really like my assurance. What do you think? 😊👍🇵🇭
Of course ALMSGIVING (i.e., donating money) is a "work of piety". RCC double-speak.
What you mean, of course, is that everyone must have faith in the Roman Catholic dogma of the Eucharist, right? What you must still not understand is that I do have faith in Jesus Christ and what the observance of the Lord's Supper symbolizes. I have celebrated it with fellow Christians countless times. I eat and drink Jesus BY FAITH. I believe that His body was broken and His precious blood was shed for my sins and because of this I am made righteous and justified before God. Praise the Lord!
Sure they don’t sell indulgences any more.
They just don’t do it for money as an outright sale.
But for a donation.........
Or the right works......
It’s still selling them.
They just rename it, just like divorce was renamed annulment, and contraception was renamed NFP.
That which we call a rose by any other name.........
“I think they are still selling them. They just don’t call it that anymore. ”
Leave it to Rome to take a pagan concept - purgatory - and then making getting out faster a religious ritual and a money-making scheme.
And as they promote paganism, they’ve missed the one thing they should have done - teach the simplicity of salvation in Christ alone, through faith, by His Grace, and apart from works.
One thing Christ died for. They perverted every part of it and decided paganism was better.
Amazing, they choose paganism over Biblical Christianity. Not good.
The apostle Paul was engaging in an objectively evil activity, however, since he though he was serving God, he was not actually culpable for it. And
Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. (1 Timothy 1:13)
Likewise,
For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings. (Isaiah 7:16)
But to sin knowing it is sin means one is is guilty of "actual sin." And to do so with full consent of the will is called "mortan sin" in Catholic theology. One who chooses to eat meat against his conscience is even guilty of "actual sin."
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. (Romans 14:23)
These classes are actually Scriptural, for while to break one law is to break all in the sense of making you a law breaker in needs of salvation, God does judge according to the degree of light and ability. Thus there are different degrees of crime in Scripture (unintentional, passion, and premeditated) and judgment relative to accountability.
The problem with Rome is that it too often calls good, evil, and evil, good, as in your case of witnessing about the real Jesus, and encouraging souls to leave the Catholic Church is called evil, while being an RC versus evangelical faith is called good.
Hmmm. I objectively judged, and determined I knew exactly what I was doing, by presenting those Catholics with the Gospel. 👍 I know many in the RCC might think I was endangering their salvation, which would be difficult, since it was my opinion, (just my opinion) that they didn’t have it to begin with. The incredulous stares I got, were a sight to behold, like maybe that was the first time in their lives, that they actually heard the truth. 😇😁
He did, in the same letter.
[God] will render to every man according to his works. To them indeed, who according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life: But to them that are contentious, and who obey not the truth, but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation. Tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek. But glory, and honour, and peace to every one that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (Romans 2:6-10)
Read the Bible every once in a while.
Thank you for your opinions, I reviewed them.
Thank you for reviewing them.
Ooohhh, look who’s come back. Someone didn’t get enough theological whupping and now wants some more?
See, the thing is? Paul never said anything about salvation in that verse you posted; you’re reading into the text what Paul does not, in fact, say, in defense of your indefensible Roman theology.
Read a few more verses onwards and you will, in fact, find that the Apostle Paul says that all these works do NOT, in fact, bring salvation.
How about you start reading the Bible and stop Romeing the Bible, and then maybe we can talk.
“eternal life” is not salvation?
No, eternal life is eternal life. Salvation is being saved from eternal death for eternal life.
But if we were to use your argument, that would suddenly turn into salvation by works, which you HATE when I accuse you of.
In context, Paul’s entire argument in chapter 2 is that God shows no partiality to the Jew as opposed to the Greek; he will judge the sin and reward the righteousness of all. I doubt that Paul would put, ‘Oh, and you have to do good works’ in the middle of his argument about God not showing favor, and then completely ignore having to do works in the rest of the letter.
But following Paul’s argument through the letter instead of just trying to find verses to ‘devastate Prot arguments’ you will then find that Paul says that there is NO ONE righteous.
Instead: “21But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.”
I don’t see, ‘Oh, and you have to do works or else you don’t have faith’ anywhere in there.
The closest you have to Paul saying that you have to do works in order to gain salvation is him instructing people who have salvation not to be slaves to sin. Which, you know, is totally what the Prots say.
And after that, Paul continues with: “5For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. 6But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7”or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.””
I don’t see, ‘Oh, and you have to do good works or else’ anywhere in there either.
Read the whole book; grasp the whole statement. Don’t just try going to look for things with which to try to defend what you’ve already decided is true.
I don't see how in the world anyone could read this passage and not understand that salvation is a gift of God's grace and we receive that gift by faith alone. How much clearer does he need to be? Anytime one adds extra stuff to be done to either obtain salvation or keep salvation, it nullifies grace. Grace MEANS undeserved, unmerited, unearned.
When a Catholic posts a clear scripture, a Protestant squirms and obfuscates.
Thank you for your opinion.
Doesn't say that. Read the Holy Scripture every once in a while, and believe it.
Thank you for expressing your opinions to me.
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