Posted on 08/27/2018 1:11:54 PM PDT by blu
“Pilots are still supposed to look out for their squadron mates.”
McCain was trying to aid a pilot who was on fire when a bomb that was cooking in the jet fuel fire exploded. This was less than two minutes from when the Zuni rocket set the whole disaster in motion. Two other bombs when off 10 seconds later. A fourth went off a few seconds after that. There’s plenty to fault McCain for, the Forrestal fire isn’t part of it.
Quite a detailed summary of the events you presented.
There are several videos about a wet start on youtube that show up by searching “Forrestal fire” in the youtube search box.
Yeah, the only thing questionable about McCain’s actions at the start of the fire in this scenario is whether the missile knocked bombs off his plane, or whether he accidentally hit controls to detach them while escaping.
And then there are more questions about what he did after getting away from the fire, and his R&R to Saigon and transfer from the Forrestal and whether he got preferred consideration being the son of an admiral.
Here is a good account of what McCain did and didn't do, backed up by FOIAed Navy records.
The Forrestal Disaster, July 29, 1967
It accords completely with the official accounts from the Navy investigation. The documentary I linked to is a good one. Covers the whole investigation.
When McCain was in Saigon, HE requested the transfer, and then he whiled away a few months. He told a friend he was worried that his naval career was over...seems bad luck followed him. He went and talked to his dad, the Admiral. Shortly thereafter, McCain was transferred to the group from which he would crash and be taken prisoner.
I know nothing of wet starts...well, I have potty trained a few little boys, so there's that..but in no way do I suggest that McCain was doing any hotdog stuff to start the fire.
Sorry to drag you into this, rlmorel. No reply necessary.
Treu, but the first fireteam was killed on deck, so anyone who could was fighting the fire. McCain went below decks.
Isn’t it funny that from 1967 no one ever blamed McCain for the Forrestal fire or said anything about “wet starts” until 2008 and that every source of it to begin with in ‘08 was liberals?
Isn’t it also funny that Snopes, who debunk McCain’s liability in the fire, claim that the smear began in Jan. 2017 coming from pro-Trump sources?
Sort of...
That first bomb explosion was 90 seconds into the fire. Soon it ignited other bombs and other missiles. Later, on the hangar deck below the main flight deck, McCain said he and another officer, along with “a lot of fine enlisted men,” pushed several bomb carts overboard to keep them away from flaming fuel that was curling down from above. He later “noticed that I had a hole below my left knee with some metal in it, and two small shrapnel cuts in my thigh and shoulder.”
McCain, 1967 statement: I started running over towards him and I was near a group of men with a fire hose. As I was about 10 feet from him the first bomb exploded and blew me back about 15 feet. I sat up and saw a lot of bodies near me (some who had been on the hose) and I ran and jumped over the starboard cat walk [under the flight deck].
I would imagine that ‘untrained’ people trying to fight the fire would basically be in the way, much the same as a Pol showing up early on in a ‘disaster’..they just take away from the job at hand.
Also, would think the standing order to ALL pilots is to seek safety and get out of the way so they can ‘live’ to fight another day.
If McM ‘unliked’ and he in close proximity, probably a good idea to get him off the ship ASAP and would imagine ALL the Pilots etal were off the ship quickly.
And his father being ‘up there in rank’ (Senior Capt or MAYBE Admiral by then) would have something to do with removing him, especially if he had received burns etc.
I still contend had his father/Grandfather not been High Ranking Officers he would have been ‘demerited’ out of USNA providing he was ever a selectee.
RHIP and apparently it carried in Ms favor.
Good read. Thanks!
Especially if they were still evacuating the wounded.
That was one of the 'lessons learned' in the Forrestal fire. I would have to watch the documentary again for the details but well-meaning deck hands made the situation worse. They didn't have much choice at the time as key fire suppression team members were killed in the initial cooking off of bombs. Old sub-standard bombs.
Some of the story is okay...lots of it is conjecture - and some ignores reality.
The deck film shows a Zuni Rocket streaking across the deck and hitting either the plane beside McCain...or affecting McCain’s plane. The film shows McCain climbing out of the cockpit and jumping to the deck ....and getting away.
I doubt the story’s line that McCain could have activated 2 switches and dropped bombs on the deck. Navy weapons designs include LOTS of safeties - like maybe the plane has to be in the air, wheels up...etc. (I am a former submariner - and I can explain the myriad safeties integrated into the torpedo system and the fire control system to prevent any bad things happening.
AND - the ‘smear’ that McCain went below decks and didn’t stay to fight fires.....WELL - that is a bit absurd - since an Aircraft Carrier has a ‘ships force’ crew and an Air Wing Crew. McCain - part of the Air Wing. Ships Force - would have plenty of damage control personnel - all trained in damage control, fighting fires, etc. McCain might have been more in the way than a valued team member who knew how the team fought fires and how he would properly aid and assist in the training.
AND - McCain - after recovery from the accident, deferred being sent home....but went to another aircraft carrier and returned to flight status and resumed combat missions. That wasn’t mentioned in the article - instead sleazily suggesting he was somehow avoiding it.
Overall - the article is more accurate than many sleazy articles...but it still misses the mark.
Please stop this crap. McCain was a brave warrior but admittedly not the best pilot. He acquitted himself with honor as a pilot and POW. As the son of the commmander of the Pacific fleet he was singled out for particular brutal treatment by his captors.
If you want to criticize McCain talk about his politics which were not good.
Where in my statement did I fault mclame for the fire?
Interestingly enough, he supposedly went to sick bay, watched a young man die, then went to his ready (?) room. That is from his book.
People shouldn't do autobiographies. They should only allow other writers to do their biography, and they should insist on at least 3 sources...and the paperwork to back it all up!
Yes...as the ‘trained’ ones fall, the ‘rookies’ have to pick up the slack which always isn’t ‘pretty’.
That led to the majority of crews being involved in at least learning which end of the hose should be pointed in which direction etc.
Not quite ‘on subject’ but when I was ‘running snow plows’ found the worst shift was 3rd shift as the ‘key personnel were given ‘first shot’ but sometimes would just sit in their truck while on standby and by the time they got relieved they were ‘done for the duration’ especially if they made it ‘home’.
My solution was to put 2 to a truck and let them relieve themselves as needed and also provide a motel room or two for longer durations.
The quote I posted wasn’t from an autobiography it was from his statement to investigators two weeks after the fire.
This thread should really be pulled since all it does is perpetuate the Democrat smear cooked up in 2008. That trivializes the 134 deaths on the Forrestal.
AS I said, the point of my post was not to dis McCain...I found out lots of stuff I didn't know today. And I'm old!!! So, there's gotta be a few people who learned something from my post and the awesome links that others posted.
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