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To: BroJoeK

Thanks for the response and info, but it still doesn’t negate my point. ‘Science’ may have an agreed upon definition, but I don’t think those scientists are the one’s here on FR discussing EVO vs. CRE.

Now, let’s get to the definition you supplied.

1. descent with modifications.

Shouldn’t that be ‘ascent’ ? I understand the context that is implied by ‘descent’ as in ‘decendents’. Still, one would think that ‘evolving’ implied improvement. Are we ascending as we evolve or descending ?

2. Natural Selection

Why just ‘natural’ ? What about non-natural selection ? It plays a part in this process, does it not ? Wars, abortion all effect the outcome of the ‘evolution’ process.


131 posted on 10/04/2018 3:12:03 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lost my tagline on Flight MH370. Sorry for the inconvenience.)
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To: UCANSEE2
UCANSEE2: "I don’t think those scientists are the one’s here on FR discussing EVO vs. CRE."

Sure, but all scientists accept basic assumptions, premises & definitions of natural-science, including: what do we mean by the term "evolution".
Answer: basic evolution is the simple process Darwin first identified as 1) descent with modifications plus 2) natural selection accumulating over long time periods leads to 3) evolution of new life forms.

UCANSEE2: "Now, let’s get to the definition you supplied.
1. descent with modifications.
Shouldn’t that be ‘ascent’ ?
I understand the context that is implied by ‘descent’ as in ‘decendents’. Still, one would think that ‘evolving’ implied improvement. Are we ascending as we evolve or descending ?"

I much enjoyed Brownowski's "Assent of Man" years ago:

But scientifically, we are descendants of our ancestors just as politically, we are descendants of our Founding Fathers.
There's no denigration implied in the word "descent", and scientists naturally shy away from the word "assent" as implying a value judgment not always warranted.

Think of this example: if a ferocious carnivore species gives up the life to become a vegetarian, is that "assent" or "descent"?

Yes, scientists do use another word which may get at the idea you're aiming for.
That word is: "complexify", over time evolution leads to life's "complexification".
But even there we can quickly think of exceptions -- viruses appear to have come from bacteria stripped down of all unnecessary features except essentials & DNA needed to do viral dirty-work.
So for a virus I'd change "complexified" to "simplified high-concept".

Humans of course like to think of ourselves as "ascending" and God has indeed laid out a path for that, in the next life.
But it remains problematic in this life how long humans can continue to enjoy our current status before getting tripped-up & "descending" from some natural or man-made disaster.

UCANSEE2: "2. Natural Selection
Why just ‘natural’ ?
What about non-natural selection?"

Fair to say that until several thousand years ago all selection was natural selection.
Today it's arguable if any selection is truly "natural" since virtually every species on earth is affected by human enterprises, to some degree or another.
The best and longest running examples are the many breeds of dogs which began as wolves maybe 30,000 years ago.
So, unless you consider humans ourselves to be a "force of nature", dogs are the oldest, least "natural" species on Earth.

138 posted on 10/05/2018 7:14:23 AM PDT by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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