Posted on 10/14/2018 12:24:49 AM PDT by Eleutheria5
OK. But they have a constitutional right to circulate their propaganda and hire whatever propagandists they want. If they want to send them to Istanbul, and on their lunch break they go to the KSA embassy to take care of some personal business, they should not get murdered over the anti-KSA propaganda they print. That is not to say that the KSA did it. That should be investigated. If they are the guilty party, so imposing a tariff on KSA petrol products is a good idea anyway. If not, so Al Qaeda or some other MB or Iranian franchise are bad guys anyway. Bomb them again for Kashoggi and the LSM will still hate Trump.
He was at the Embassy on his own private business. I do not care if the rubbish he printed was anti-American, and Kashoggi was the best America hater on their staff, he is entitled to a paycheck and the ordinary protection of an employee of a paper from the violence of those who dislike what he wrote. Very simple. No fairy tale. It’s not worth going to war over, or canceling a major deal over, but some sort of consequences are necessary against the guilty party.
“I am not even convinced that the alleged victim is actually dead.”
Good. Then an investigation, including forensic exam of this alleged recording of his alleged murder, is in order.
Using this logic, if Osama had written an article for NYT you would have been against him being taken out. Good to know.
I reject the notion entirely.
Then an investigation, including forensic exam of this alleged recording of his alleged murder, is in order.
Nope.
Not our monkey.
“Using this logic, if Osama had written an article for NYT you would have been against him being taken out. Good to know.”
You call this ‘logic’? Is it your contention that Kashoggi had committed overt acts of terrorism? All you have is that he liked terrorists and wrote nice things about them. In which case, using your ‘logic,’ we should be taking out half the editorial staff of the NYT, WaPo, and the Village Voice. Not that I like them, but people are allowed to express their dumbassed opinion under the Constitution.
“Then an investigation, including forensic exam of this alleged recording of his alleged murder, is in order.
Nope.
Not our monkey.”
Now this is scary. What America’s policy should be towards KSA is indeed America’s monkey. And how KSA treats dissidents is a necessary part of deciding America’s policy.
But that’s not what’s scary. What’s scary is that you are opposed to investigating. You remind me of those hollyweirdos who were writing how they believed Balsy-Fraud’s testimony before she even testified.
If there is one defining difference between the modern-day Right and Left, it’s narrative. The Left believes in narrative. They have a paradigm that determines their agenda, and their agenda determines what facts they believe in advance of, and if need be despite, any and all evidence.
The Right considers the evidence, and then decides what to believe. You don’t even want to examine the evidence. You dismiss the duty to investigate out of hand in advance of any investigation, saying ‘not our monkey’. In fact, you even assume that the only possible reaction to a putative investigation that incriminates KSA is war. In other words, you have your paradigm, your agenda, and therefore your narrative.
I’m for investigating, finding out what happened, and from that point deciding what action to take, which almost certainly would not be war. I am not convinced that this was KSA’s doing, considering the source was an Al Qaeda operative. Here we have a recording. It could be a forgery, but even then a forensic analysis would get us closer to finding out who really did it. But since you’re apparently the head of the CIA, and I’m a mere American ex-pat with an opinion, you decide according to the dictates of your narrative. Pay me no mind.
Just supported and encouraged it.
Which is really all Osama did as well.
In which case, using your ‘logic,’ we should be taking out half the editorial staff of the NYT, WaPo, and the Village Voice.
They actually are Americans. To our shame.
And we don't go after most Americans who promote the violent overthrow of our government. Other countries have other rules.
What’s scary is that you are opposed to investigating.
What is scary is that you want to waste American time and resources on this.
Are we going to investigate every possible murder every where on planet earth?
You dismiss the duty to investigate out of hand in advance of any investigation, saying ‘not our monkey’.
There is no duty to investigate. You are making things up out of whole cloth.
This is not only not our monkey, it it not our circus either.
If he had been an American citizen, it would have been our monkey and we would have had a duty. If it had happened on US soil it would have been our circus.
None of these are the case.
And then you descend into the usual hysteria.
Please apply logic and reason to this. I know you can. I have seen you do it.
Agreed. I do not understand why we Americans are supposed to give a damn about this to the point of expending national resources on the event. I wonder if we sent the FBI to investigate every Russian reporter Putin whacked?
I would rather we didn’t get involved, EXCEPT he had a United States Green card, which gives him some sort of protection under our laws, and apparently, his children are American citizens by birth. Personally, it would seem his real occupation was as a spy, possibly a double agent. Too bad Brennan lost his security clearance/s; if anyone would know, he would.
Pretty gruesome. Spying is a dirty business.
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Constitutional rights are at present a theoretical animal.
They are there on paper for sure, but where do we see them in practice?
My position was simply that the Compost has chosen to make themselves the enemy of freedom, and of Yehova. If one sells their personal service to them, they surrender all respect from my realm.
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“Is it your contention that Kashoggi had committed overt acts of terrorism?
Just supported and encouraged it.
Which is really all Osama did as well.”
You really think all Osama did was say “attaboy” when an American target was hit! He financed it, set up an organization and helped plan it. He did everything except fly the planes into the towers. Kashoggi might have said an ‘attaboy’ and ‘serves you right,’ but that does not make him a terrorist, just another leftard idiot. WaPo hired him, and was responsible for him. If KSA killed him, it was because he was talking trash against the Crown Prince, not because they have a problem with terror cheerleaders. They clearly don’t.
In which case, using your ‘logic,’ we should be taking out half the editorial staff of the NYT, WaPo, and the Village Voice.
They actually are Americans. To our shame.
And we don’t go after most Americans who promote the violent overthrow of our government. Other countries have other rules.
If KSA is serious about modernizing its society, and they want American help, they had better stop offing dissidents who work for American papers.
“What’s scary is that you are opposed to investigating.
What is scary is that you want to waste American time and resources on this.”
It’s not a waste. It’s looking into the conduct of an alleged ally. One that is ostensibly trying to join the 21st Century. Offing a dissident does not fit with that. America has the resources to ‘insure’ preexisting conditions, provide municipal welfare to cities that flaunt federal law, investigate bogus claims against a respect judge, and study global warming. But when it comes to investigating a murder that is relevant to US foreign policy, suddenly you’re all for austerity. US intelligence has the most resources and the best trained investigators on the planet, bar none except maybe England and Israel. Looking into this would be an infinitesimal fraction of the CIA or NSA’s total budget.
“Are we going to investigate every possible murder every where on planet earth?”
Again. American corporate citizen’s employee, murdered possibly for things that he said in the course of his employment.
“You dismiss the duty to investigate out of hand in advance of any investigation, saying ‘not our monkey’.
There is no duty to investigate. You are making things up out of whole cloth.
This is not only not our monkey, it it not our circus either.”
If you can show me a pink slip from the WaPo personnel department dated an hour before he got disappeared, you’d be right. But an employee abroad is entitled to some protection, especially if he’s in the 4th estate, distasteful as that is. At the very least, an investigation.
“If he had been an American citizen, it would have been our monkey and we would have had a duty. If it had happened on US soil it would have been our circus.
None of these are the case.”
So if he has a green card, still not our monkey? What about an H-2 visa? You’re making a nonsense distinction. If he were a citizen, it would have been an act of war, though no war would have occurred. He was in the employ of a US paper, and possibly killed for expressing his opinion by the object of that opinion, and who wants to remodel his society with American help. America’s monkey, albeit on lend-lease.
“And then you descend into the usual hysteria.
Please apply logic and reason to this. I know you can. I have seen you do it. “
Please look in the mirror. This is not logic you are using, it is narrative. That’s why you imagined I was advocating war with the KSA. It fit your narrative, not the facts. The fact that you are unaware of it is a symptom of being caught up in a false paradigm that defines the agenda that writes the narrative.
Investigation in this case is a good thing. Leftard MSM wants to stampede Trump into just f@#ing the arms deal with KSA in order to prove he’s not against the First Amendment, which ‘proof’ they will then studiously ignore and keep pushing. M’man does not stampede, and good on him. But investigate, his administration must, for the aforementioned reasons.
Respect for Kashoggi? For what? Having an eastern name that’s easy to pronounce? He was(?) an a@@hole of the worst sort, enjoying the freedoms of America to bash America.
Do you respect Salman Rushdie? He’s living in hiding somewhere in America for writing an anti-Islamic book, The Satanic Verses. The US government is protecting him. But before he wrote that book, he was a run-of-the-mill leftard America-bashing a@@hole, too. Respect? They’re a dime a dozen. It’s intellectual fashion that never seems to get old in leftard circles.
Sure, I want his death investigated as a matter of upholding that hypothetical bill of rights and the safety of American company’s employees abroad. But respect Kashogi? When hell freezes over. I’d sooner respect the Washington Post.
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The Washington Compost is distinctly more harmful to our way of life than any Kashoggi I know. (and they are all manipulators for their own purposes)
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I wouldn’t wipe my a$$ on it. Now the NY Times, I might use to wrap fish or mop up a spill.
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