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To: central_va

“All patriots are nationalists by definition.”

I agree, but sometimes words get so corrupted or buried in fear-mongering that, as accurate as they are, they have to be replaced. I am 71 years old, and long before Chomsky, in the 1950’s we were taught at grade-school that what had caused World War II was Nationalism, and that the only hope we had of avoiding an even more destructive future war was to “mature” beyond being nationalists. If Germany and Japan had caused so much trouble by being excessive nationalists, then (somehow, magically) by refusing to be nationalists ourselves we could prevent future unruly nationalists from causing trouble. Our moral example would restrain them, or something.

My point is that it may not be possible to wipe the stink off “nationalism” that has been slathered on it all our lives. Maybe Trump will have another amazing success and manage to rehabilitate the concept. But, in the meantime, is there another word that covers the same territory that we could use instead? Nothing pops into my mind.


22 posted on 10/24/2018 9:17:14 AM PDT by Stirner
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To: Stirner

“My point is that it may not be possible to wipe the stink off ‘nationalism’ that has been slathered on it all our lives. Maybe Trump will have another amazing success and manage to rehabilitate the concept. But, in the meantime, is there another word that covers the same territory that we could use instead? Nothing pops into my mind.”

Patriotism. Judeo-Christian. Western civilization. But those terms have also been maligned. If you are going to let the left dictate the meaning of language, you’ve already lost half of the battle. Maybe it is better to wear the insults as a badge of honor.


34 posted on 10/24/2018 9:55:05 AM PDT by unlearner (A war is coming.)
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To: Stirner

I think the socialism part of National Socialism is the real bogeyman. Ww2 was a bloody world war but the killing and destruction caused by the Russian international socialists and the German National Socialists was a whole order greater than the Western Front.


51 posted on 10/24/2018 11:27:34 AM PDT by joegoeny ("Nuts!")
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To: Stirner

Patriot!


53 posted on 10/24/2018 11:53:05 AM PDT by Mollypitcher1 (I have not yet begun to fight....John Paul Jones)
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To: Stirner

Instead of being politically correct, use the word nationalist repeatedly and people will come to know what it means. Backing away and seeking another word is giving victory to the PC IDIOTS! Cowards never win.


54 posted on 10/24/2018 11:56:22 AM PDT by Mollypitcher1 (I have not yet begun to fight....John Paul Jones)
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To: Stirner; central_va; x
central_va: "All patriots are nationalists by definition."

stirner: "I am 71 years old, and long before Chomsky, in the 1950’s we were taught at grade-school that what had caused World War II was Nationalism, and that the only hope we had of avoiding an even more destructive future war was to 'mature' beyond being nationalists."

For once I agree with central_va, meaning, by my definitions "patriotism" and "nationalism" are the same things.
Yes, I also heard as a boy that "nationalism" was a bad thing, because it drove Hitler, among others, but I was never taught that in school, and only heard it from a source I did not then consider reliable.

Even as a boy I knew there were perfectly good words for types of extreme nationalism -- chauvinism, jingoism, xenophobia, fanaticism, expansionism, zealotry, imperialist, colonialist and on the other end: isolationism.

I never imagined that nationalism itself implied anything other than patriotism, that it was anything less than absolutely necessary for a functioning country, or that the word itself implied any of those more pathological emotions.

69 posted on 10/26/2018 7:13:40 AM PDT by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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