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To Prevent Huge Forest Fires, Let Them Burn
Popular Science ^ | September 17, 2015 Yes 2015 | Mary Beth Griggs

Posted on 11/10/2018 7:14:38 PM PST by NoLibZone

The size and swiftness of this weekend's deadly Valley Fire in California was startling.

But could it (and the other fires currently raging out west) have been smaller if fires in previous years had been allowed to burn?

The authors of a new paper published today in Science certainly think so.

In looking at forest fires in the United States, the researchers found that the vast majority of wildfires were kept extremely small, with 98 percent limited to less than 300 acres. Keeping fires small has been a goal for decades, as firefighters tried to preserve the forest the best way they knew how.

Currently, the thousands of firefighters working to control firefighters try to suppress them, or contain them in a specific area where the fires can safely burn themselves out, by building earthen barriers, using water, or even setting small fires to use up fuel (sticks, trees, grasses) before the larger fire gets there. 98 percent of the time, this method works great. But then there's the last 2 percent. That 2 percent accounts for the monster fires, ones that burn through 97 percent of the land burned every year, and also accounts for 97 percent of the cost of fighting fires.

(Excerpt) Read more at popsci.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: fires; forest; forestmanagement
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Trump proved correct.
1 posted on 11/10/2018 7:14:38 PM PST by NoLibZone
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To: NoLibZone

That is what I’ve read. I’m an experts but
In did read that

I swear fixing typos on voice to text takes probably more time than just typing it out but I’m lying in bed and don’t feel like typing:-)


2 posted on 11/10/2018 7:27:39 PM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: NoLibZone

As far as I understand it, it destroyed an entire town. So sad.


3 posted on 11/10/2018 7:29:28 PM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: NoLibZone
The number one reason they don't burn more brush in California is CARB regulations. Those regulations apply to federal lands as well as state and private lands. Essentially any fire, natural or not, that is over a certain size must be put out (or not started) if the weather is very safe for fires. Hard to believe, but true. If it is safe to burn because of low winds and mixing, then fires cannot be started or must be put out.

Conversely they allow fires to burn or be started when it is unsafe, high mixing weather. Why so insane you might ask. Well, because if there is wind then the smoke blows away and that is healthy and desirable. Suffice to say, for liability reasons there is very little controlled fire under unsafe conditions.

There is also very little controlled fire allowed under safe conditions due to the regulations. Thus there is very lttle controlled burning, about 1/10 or 1/100 of what is actually needed depending on the past rainy seaon(s) that lead to dangerous amounts of brush.

These insane regulations apply to federal lands too, so don't let anyone tell you that it is not California's fault.

4 posted on 11/10/2018 7:34:40 PM PST by palmer (...if we do not have strong families and strong values, then we will be weak and we will not survive)
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To: NoLibZone

A totally unnuanced approach.

Plenty o peeps now live in and around forests. Some serious balance is needed to attend to the interactions between both.


5 posted on 11/10/2018 7:34:44 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2

Although I agree that some nuance is a good idea, I will say this:

A lot of people shake their head at folks who build houses on the Florida shore — “Don’t come crying to me, when a hurricane destroys your house!” they say.

Well, maybe building a house in the forests of California is similar.

There are costs, and insurance can help mitigate some of the risks, but for the government to step in and “rescue” people who build in risky environments seems a little wrong.


6 posted on 11/10/2018 7:39:30 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (If White Privilege is real, why did Elizabeth Warren lie about being an Indian?)
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To: NoLibZone

Why let them burn?

Just ckear cut them ahead of the fires....


7 posted on 11/10/2018 7:56:56 PM PST by Paladin2
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High winds and low humidity
for Sunday here in San Diego.
Our Power company will Cut power to
Prevent A Possible “Spark.”
.
I am sick of California.


8 posted on 11/10/2018 8:07:42 PM PST by Big Red Badger (Despised by the Despicable!)
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To: palmer

Interesting.

Thanks for posting.

The LA Basin’s unstainable overpopulation drives Calif. idiocy for everyone else?

Got it.


9 posted on 11/10/2018 8:10:48 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2

Now do not go and make sense like that. You muddy up the argument.

Corridor cuts, or block clear fell sites, can be safety zones for fire prevention.

In Marinette Co Wisconsin, they still maintain the fire lanes to get to these fire fast. But, in the USFS areas, many roads are being closed and ripped up. So, no access to these areas when fires break out. So what do they do? They hire contractors with bulldozers at 2500 to 4500 bucks a day to BUILD GD ROADS during the fire. That money stated above? Its paid if the machine is used or not. 400 bucks a day the operator gets. That is with room and board, meals and everything.

Big bucks in that. Dollars spent that wouldnt have to been spent if they simply cut and manage it.

And dont let anyone tell you they cant log most of these areas either. They have machinery that will go up 75% grades tethered. They also have brush grinders that can grind that brush on site and clear up to 40 acres a day.

Timberpro 4 way leveler can go up a 60% hill and put a brush hog on the thing and clear it out. They can clear a 40 foot swath.


10 posted on 11/10/2018 8:43:32 PM PST by crz
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To: Paladin2

Here are last year’s Murder by County stats for California:

County Number Murders
1 Sutter 6101 0
2 Sierra 6091 0
3 Mono 6051 0
4 Mariposa 6043 0
5 Inyo 6027 0
6 Colusa 6011 0
7 Calaveras 6009 0
8 Alpine 6003 0
9 Tuolumne 6109 1
10 Siskiyou 6093 1
11 Plumas 6063 1
12 Glenn 6021 1
13 Del Norte 6015 1
14 Amador 6005 1
15 Yuba 6115 2
16 Placer 6061 2
17 Lassen 6035 2
18 Trinity 6105 3
19 San Luis Obispo 6079 3
20 Nevada 6057 3
21 Imperial 6025 3
22 El Dorado 6017 3
23 Yolo 6113 4
24 San Benito 6069 4
25 Modoc 6049 4
26 Napa 6055 5
27 Marin 6041 5
28 Tehama 6103 6
29 Mendocino 6045 6
30 Lake 6033 6
31 Sonoma 6097 7
32 Kings 6031 7
33 Shasta 6089 8
34 Santa Cruz 6087 9
35 Madera 6039 9
36 San Mateo 6081 11
37 Humboldt 6023 11
38 Butte 6007 11
39 Santa Barbara 6083 16
40 Ventura 6111 20
41 Solano 6095 27
42 Merced 6047 29
43 Stanislaus 6099 32
44 Monterey 6053 34
45 Tulare 6107 36
46 Santa Clara 6085 40
47 San Francisco 6075 45
48 Contra Costa 6013 47
49 Kern 6029 59
50 Fresno 6019 59
51 Orange 6059 61
52 San Joaquin 6077 67
53 San Diego 6073 74 74
54 Sacramento 6067 80
55 Riverside 6065 93 93
56 Alameda 6001 102
57 San Bernardino 6071 110 110
58 Los Angeles 6037 526 526 30.996%

Total 1697 803 47.319%

Kinda makes your case for LA County being “unsustainable” and “idiotic.”
Notice that you have to go down 35 of the 58 counties to get to 10 murders, and the first 8 counties had zero! And with the exception of Alameda County, the Bay Area counties are quite low for an urban area. Oakland (Alameda County) has a large Black and Middle Eastern Component in East Oakland which accounts for it’s high numbers.


11 posted on 11/10/2018 8:53:34 PM PST by vette6387
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To: vette6387

I’be interested in a plot of murders vs % ‘rat registrations for the Counties.


12 posted on 11/10/2018 8:59:16 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2
Nearly all of the counties with low murder rates are in Northern and Far Northern California and the are where the Conservative Votes come from. Here's another stat, CCW Permit Availability by County:

https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=Awr9ImOxuOdbl4QAAl1XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTExM2Jia211BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDREZENl8xBHNlYwNzYw—?p=county+map+for+california+ccw+issuance&fr=aaplw#id=0&iurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.friedmanhandguntraining.com%2Fimages%2FCCW_map.jpg&action=click

This also tracks with Conservative citizenry. You can see why the Northern part of the state want to secede and form a new State (Jefferson). The crazy thing here is where you need a CCW, you can't get one, and where you don't, you can for the asking. Unless somehow Liberalism falls out of vogue here, California will not survive intact for very many more years.

13 posted on 11/10/2018 9:12:54 PM PST by vette6387
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To: NoLibZone

In regards to the headline, agreed!


14 posted on 11/10/2018 9:12:55 PM PST by familyop ("Welcome to Costco. I love you." - -Costco greeter in the movie, "Idiocracy")
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To: NoLibZone

No, allow logging again and active forest management.


15 posted on 11/10/2018 9:13:46 PM PST by walkingdead (It's easy, you just don't lead 'em as much....)
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To: walkingdead

Logging currently consists not only of lumber harvesting but taking waste wood (undergrowth, dead trees, brush, ect) to energy. You chip the crap and use it to produce energy. So not only do you get a cleaned of overburden forest but you get power from it too.


16 posted on 11/10/2018 9:17:04 PM PST by walkingdead (It's easy, you just don't lead 'em as much....)
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To: walkingdead
Logging currently consists not only of lumber harvesting but taking waste wood (undergrowth, dead trees, brush, ect) to energy. You chip the crap and use it to produce energy. So not only do you get a cleaned of overburden forest but you get power from it too.

Yes. And loggers scrape out roads that give firefighters access if needed and provide firebreaks.

Letting a forest burn only works if that's been a longstanding practice. If underbrush has been allowed to build up, the whole forest will go up. If underbrush has been controlled, whether by humans or by lightning created fires, usually just the underbrush will burn. You'll see burn marks on the trunks of trees, but typically the trunks of larger trees won't ignite and the trees will survive.

17 posted on 11/10/2018 10:12:46 PM PST by Kipp
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To: NoLibZone

Remove all the eucalyptus trees, clear out the dead wood and underbrush.


18 posted on 11/10/2018 10:27:31 PM PST by Mr. Blond
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To: NoLibZone

How about managing forests? You know, logging an amount equal to the new growth, maintaining roads for access by firefighters, removing and using downed and dead trees for lumber and firewood. Makes more sense than just letting them burn and pollute the air. Even back in the middle ages forests were more managed than now. Villagers removed brush trimmed trees, and opened meadows for wildlife. Let it grow wild and burn is not a reasonable plan.


19 posted on 11/10/2018 11:00:42 PM PST by Hugin ("Not one step rom his weapons should a traveler take"...Havamal 38)
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To: walkingdead

Yes. The Germans manage the Black Forest and other wooded areas very carefully. Why we don’t is a mystery.


20 posted on 11/11/2018 3:02:31 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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