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Countless Americans carry guns. Police are killing too many of them
LA Times ^ | NOV 27, 2018 | Times Editorial Board

Posted on 12/05/2018 8:09:00 AM PST by Sopater

Many justifications are being offered for the tragic police shooting on Thanksgiving night that killed 21-year Emantic Fitzgerald Bradford Jr. at the Riverchase Galleria in Hoover, Ala., just south of Birmingham. They all seem beside the point.

Bradford, known as E.J., was among the shoppers who crowded the mall on Thursday when, police say, gunshots wounded an 18-year-old man and a 12-year-old girl. Bradford apparently was armed. Police showed up on the scene and shot him, and announced that in doing so, they had ended the threat. They later acknowledged that Bradford had not been the shooter. But they claimed that he had "brandished" his gun at the scene, leading to a "heightened sense of threat" in an already dangerous situation.

Certainly, if a man holds a gun at the scene of a shooting, police are more likely to zero in on him than on others. Officers arrive in the midst of extremely tense, life-threatening and fast-moving situations and must think quickly.

Yet guns are ubiquitous in this nation, whether we like it or not. Many people carry them legally, and for just this kind of situation — to be the "good guy with a gun" who stops the armed bad guy. No less than the president of the United States has called for more armed citizens, so that in the midst of an altercation, many guns might be wielded by good guys and bad guys alike. Officers should expect it. They should be trained for it.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 2a; banglist; guns
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1 posted on 12/05/2018 8:09:00 AM PST by Sopater
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To: null and void

Ping.


2 posted on 12/05/2018 8:10:58 AM PST by TADSLOS (I wish Adam and Eve had been Cajuns. They would have ignored the apple and ate the snake.)
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To: Sopater

We were taught in firearm school that IF there is an active shooter event and you are using your weapon w/ your CCW permit to try and end it, when the Police arrive you need to drop your weapon right away and kick it away from you.

When the Police arrive at that kind of event, they do not ask questions, they eliminate threats, and that is what you look like.


3 posted on 12/05/2018 8:14:20 AM PST by Jimmy The Snake
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To: Sopater

“Yet guns are ubiquitous in this nation, whether we like it or not.”

We like it.


4 posted on 12/05/2018 8:18:04 AM PST by BenLurkin (The above is not a statement of fact. It is either satire or opinion. Or both.)
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To: Jimmy The Snake
When the Police arrive at that kind of event, they do not ask questions

Our SERVANTS have a bad attitude. We must change it. Or get better SERVANTS.

5 posted on 12/05/2018 8:21:05 AM PST by NorthMountain (... the right of the peopIe to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed)
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To: Sopater
the LA Times thinks police training inadequately accounts for the fact that blacks and latinos might be lawfully armed at the scene of a crime, and astonishingly extends that consideration to all Americans. Shocking. My eyebrow is like totally elevated and flapping all over by forehead.

The general consensus in LA is that armed individuals are likely to be shot on sight unless prominently displaying a badge. That includes folks with a pistol in the holster, because that's illegal now.

6 posted on 12/05/2018 8:26:55 AM PST by no-s (when democracy is displaced by tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote...)
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To: Sopater

Didn’t happen to this guy. He did everything right:
https://youtu.be/AhLmjUZB5V0

And, he did it with STYLE!!


7 posted on 12/05/2018 8:29:43 AM PST by RandallFlagg (Fact: Gun control laws kill innocents.)
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To: Sopater

Hypothetical situation in relation to the recent killing by police of a security guard. You’ve just taken down an armed person who tried to rob you. You didn’t have to shoot them, but in the end you are on top of a face down person who still has their gun under them. They are not moving or giving you reason to shoot them at that moment, then the police show up. If you put your gun down the bad guy is very likely to shoot you or one of the police officers. How much ‘splainin are the police going to listen to from you? They probably won’t even hear it over either their shouted commands at you to drop the gun or their own gunfire directed at you. I could think of several other scenarios where being armed would be problematic. By the way I carry, and I think about these types of situations.


8 posted on 12/05/2018 8:34:47 AM PST by suthener (E)
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To: Sopater

I’m pro-CCW and pro-law enforcement but both sides need to be very careful when a legal gun carrier and an officer confront each other in a high-pressure situation. The CCW citizen must not make any sudden moves and follow the cop’s instructions immediately. The cop has to give clear instructions and give the citizen enough time to understand and follow instructions.

Here, the citizen was running away from the scene and carrying his pistol exposed. Better that he was not running and either holstered his gun or had held it pointed down. The cop shot the citizen 3 times in the back. He should have taken more time to assess the threat and been sure that the person running had heard the verbal warning to stop and drop the weapon.


9 posted on 12/05/2018 8:39:49 AM PST by RicocheT (Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.)
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To: no-s

“The general consensus in LA is that armed individuals are likely to be shot on sight unless prominently displaying a badge.”

Every undercover cop has known that for decades. If uniformed officers arrive THEY make the rules. Lot’s of undercover cops have been mistakenly shot over the years.
And they know it isn’t even smart to display a badge, reaching for it is dicey. Freaking surrender and sort it out then.


10 posted on 12/05/2018 8:39:50 AM PST by DesertRhino (Dog is man's best friend, and moslems hate dogs. Add that up. ....)
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To: Sopater

Legal carry or not, hard to imagine what was on that guys mind.
Active shooter, young Black male running from scene with gun in hand or in sight.
Off duty(??) police (in civvies??) shoots him ... Off Duty(??) Police probably lucky he didn’t get shot by a late arriving Uniformed Police.

Of course, the Off Duty Guy probably holstered/dropped his weapon when the ‘threat’ was ended.

I would NEVER go chasing after someone in a crowded mall with gun drawn...the ONLY reason I am armed is to protect MYSELF and those that happen to be around me and it is a life or death situation. WOULD NEVER go running after someone at least not while brandishing a weapon.

Even if you were to draw your weapon and have it holstered when Police arrive, good idea to at least ID yourself to them BEFORE some bystander looks around and says
“There is one of them that had a gun”.

And even though the ‘suspect’ may be a young or old or whatever Black Male, an 80 yo White guy with a gun in sight will probably be in cuffs for a while till the situation gets sorted out IF he didn’t get shot upon arrival of Police...


11 posted on 12/05/2018 8:41:00 AM PST by xrmusn (6/98"Getting rich as a Politician means doing something illegal''(trunc) HS Truman)
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To: Jimmy The Snake

“Drop and kick your weapon away”??? How about placing it on the floor/ground and back away from it?


12 posted on 12/05/2018 8:44:57 AM PST by SkyDancer ( ~ Just Consider Me A Random Fact Generator ~ Eat Sleep Fly Repeat ~)
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To: RicocheT
The cop shot the citizen 3 times in the back.

That's first degree murder (unless you have the magic blue costume on).

13 posted on 12/05/2018 8:49:05 AM PST by NorthMountain (... the right of the peopIe to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed)
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To: Sopater

I saw on the news last night a homeowner called the cops on an intruder beating his son or grandson. When they arrived on the scene they promptly shot the caller dead. I believe he was white.


14 posted on 12/05/2018 9:09:52 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: SkyDancer

Yup and put your hands up


15 posted on 12/05/2018 9:10:37 AM PST by Jimmy The Snake
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To: no-s

“The general consensus in LA is that armed individuals are likely to be shot on sight.”

Especially if you are elderly Asian women in blue Toyota pickups delivering newspapers.


16 posted on 12/05/2018 9:26:41 AM PST by Polynikes ( Hakkaa palle)
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To: Jimmy The Snake

You put your non-gun hand up in the air and slowly place the gun on the ground and raise that hand. OTOH, my gun is used to protect me not go all Jane Wayne trying to stop a shooter because when you’re doing that and LEO shows up and doesn’t see who you are shooting at, guess what?


17 posted on 12/05/2018 9:37:08 AM PST by SkyDancer ( ~ Just Consider Me A Random Fact Generator ~ Eat Sleep Fly Repeat ~)
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To: Sopater
Many people carry them legally, and for just this kind of situation — to be the "good guy with a gun"...

Nope.

I do not carry my weapon for anyone else's benefit other than myself, my children or my wife.

Period.

Chances are, if I were to happen upon a bunch of gang-banging gorilla morons, I would most likely ensure my own personal safety was secure, and unless there were children or totally defenseless senior citizens present, I would simply fade out of the area.

I take a bullet for no one.

It was not always that way...there was time in my younger days when I would have jumped into the fray...but you know what?...nobody appreciates that kind of sacrifice and it has become an exercise in providing test cases for enterprising young prosecutors.

I firmly and strongly believe this young man had all good intentions, but I also think that he had no situational awareness and matters were further complicated by a trigger-happy cop.

Until I see the actual autopsy, I will have doubts, but there is much evidence that at least three of the rounds that hit the young man came from behind him.

Regardless, it has been mishandled, beginning with the lying cop, all the way up to that damned ambulance chasing lawyer, Crump, looking for another Trayvon glory quest.

18 posted on 12/05/2018 9:38:49 AM PST by OldSmaj
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To: Polynikes
Especially if you are elderly Asian women in blue Toyota pickups delivering newspapers.

Such slander against the LAPD!

Those women were unarmed. {/sarc}

19 posted on 12/05/2018 9:41:08 AM PST by Rinnwald
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To: Sopater

But they claimed that he had “brandished” his gun at the scene, leading to a “heightened sense of threat” in an already dangerous situation.

At this point, unless we have video evidence that he brandished a weapon, or if there is corroborating evidence from bystanders we really can’t trust police as witnesses because of the obvious conflict of interest.


20 posted on 12/05/2018 10:07:38 AM PST by grumpygresh (Abolish administrative law. It's regressive, medieval and unconstitutional!)
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