Posted on 01/23/2019 8:20:57 AM PST by Rumplemeyer
You know as well as I do that yours is a VERY weak, inane argument!
Here we are talking about a fundamental change in the way the government raises funds for its operations, and you want to quibble about a feature of the FAIRtax that applies EQUALLY to EVERY legal family in America based strictly on family size?
That UNTAXES the basic necessities of life for EVERYONE LIVING LEGALLY IN AMERICA?
The “poverty guideline” (i.e., the poverty level amount for a given family size) is adjusted annually the by statisticians at the Department of Health and Human Services.
You know that politicians cannot adjust the poverty level!
The issue we are talking about is FREEDOM!
FAIRtax is FREEDOM; Flat Tax is slavery!
Where do you stand?
As for me, I stand for FREEDOM! It is nobody’s business how I make my living or how much I make, much less some faceless bureaucrat at America’s most unconstitutional Agency!
Check it out - the USA is taking it in the shorts with virtually EVERY country we trade with!
A level playing field is not something the USA has ever had, and FAIRtax is the right approach to take, and REAL PATRIOTS know that.
Any other talk in reference to punishing our trading partners via tariffs is foolish and counterproductive!
Your loose talk of “Free Traitors” is VERY OFFENSIVE and WAY OFF BASE!
You have no idea what you are talking about!
READ THE DAMN LEGISLATION: H.R. 25!
Go to https://www.bigsolution.org and read all about the FAIRtax. When you have read and understand it, come on back!
If we had a "Thumbs Up" option, you'd get a big fat one from me.
Happy New Year!
Hope you and yours are doing well!
Are you nuts? They already have changed it multiple times over the years. Now you can own assets that we not allowed in the past.
FAIRtax is FREEDOM; Flat Tax is slavery!
Bull crap. That may be a catchy platitude, but it has no basis in fact. A flat tax treats everyone the same, which means everyone has "skin in the game". Indeed, to me, if you don't pay any Federal Income Taxes, why should you even be allowed to vote? No skin in the game, you should sit on the sidelines.
...the FAIRtax that applies EQUALLY to EVERY legal family in America...
So does the Flat tax. In fact, more so.
As for me, I stand for FREEDOM! It is nobody’s business how I make my living or how much I make
Well, good for you, but favoring the Flat tax offers more freedom than the Fair tax. With a Flat tax, you wouldn't even need to file a tax return, so there would be less invasion of privacy that with your Fair Tax. All revenue sources would withhold that fixed percentage of income for the Flat Tax. (Friedman suggested 17%.) Therefore, at the end of the fiscal year, you've already had the taxes you owe withheld. There's no reason for anyone to see your total income because you've already paid them through the withholding.
The “poverty guideline” (i.e., the poverty level amount for a given family size) is adjusted annually the by statisticians at the Department of Health and Human Services.
Here again, you are misinformed. The poverty guideline is set by politicians and HHS adjusts that for inflation. That guideline has changed drastically over time and items that used to be disallowed (e.g., cars, TV's, home ownership) are now allowed under the "guidelines". HHS does NOT set those guidelines, they simply adjust for inflation.
You need to brush up on your facts.
“...Certainly not Congress....”
While heavily laundered, follow the drug money...
The Tariff Act of 1789, was the first major Act passed in the United States under its present Constitution of 1789 and had two purposes as stated in Section I of the Act which reads as follows;
Whereas it is necessary for that support of government, for the discharge of the debts of the United States, and the encouragement and protection of manufactures, that duties be laid on goods, wares and merchandise[1]
The Fair tax is not a tariff. Therefore I think the Fair tax is not the best way to go. I DO KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.
You take offense because the shoe fits.
In respect of foreign goods imported into the US, the FAIRtax is a tariff.
I take offense because your comment is offensive!
Tariffs were used back in the day because the federal government had to raise funds to pay for services.
Tariffs in today’s world are used to punish or get even with a country.
The concept of “Fair Trade” obviously escapes you.
“A flat tax system would eliminate this legal bribery.”
A flat tax is a bad idea and will never pass. It is regressive against low-income people.
A consumption tax is a much better idea, and would allow the complete elimination of the IRS from regular folks lives.
You are in tariff denial. You are a trade denier.
Why does the rest of the world almost universally practice protectionism? And name a country with lower average tariff rates than the USA.
The 30 year globalist experiment in "Free Trade" is an abject failure. Why? because the rest of the of world didn't play along and used the USA like a cheap whore.
You Free Traitors™ need to quit acting like you need to educate Patriots in economics. We understand economics WAY more than you realize.
Protectionist, (Patriots) understand that a tariff will increase prices. We get it. WE WANT THAT. It's a one time inflation due to higher labor costs in the USA. Again, we understand the economists. We are not stupid. But the payoff from higher import tariffs comes in lowered social costs and higher quality products. We are willing to pay more for a strong viable industrial base. I WANT TO PAY MORE.
Arguing with you is wasting my time and yours.
You will NEVER change my mind about the FAIRtax, and I will NEVER change your mind about tariffs, so I see no point to continuing this discussion.
Let us agree to disagree and be done with it!
Have a nice day!
Well played!
Are you nuts? They already have changed it multiple times over the years. Now you can own assets that we not allowed in the past.
Bureaucrats establish the poverty levels! “The poverty thresholds were originally developed in 1963-1964 by Mollie Orshansky of the Social Security Administration.” (href=https://aspe.hhs.gov/history-poverty-thresholds) [Sorry, my html muse is not with me today - you'll have to cut and paste the URLs in this post]
There is all manner of discussion re: poverty at https://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty-guidelines. All bureaucratic bull!
Politicians may put pressure on the bureaucrats to make changes, but these are Executive Department dictated changes.
Bull crap. That may be a catchy platitude, but it has no basis in fact. A flat tax treats everyone the same, which means everyone has "skin in the game". Indeed, to me, if you don't pay any Federal Income Taxes, why should you even be allowed to vote? No skin in the game, you should sit on the sidelines.
Any tax that taxes income DOES NOT TREAT “EVERYONE THE SAME!” Flat tax taxes income, and EVERY income tax EVER put into law, discriminates – rewards and punishes poor suffering taxpayers by political fiat - in many, many ways! You should know that!
FAIRtax taxes the consumption of new retail goods (used goods ARE NOT TAXED!) at the same rate. We who support the FAIRtax believe it is FAR more beneficial to our nation’s economy to tax consumption vice work, savings and investment!
Indeed, FAIRtax ENCOURAGES people to work, save and invest MUCH MORE of their God-given talents in advancing their own livelihood by REWARDING them for working, saving and investing in their future rather than punishing them, as the income tax does!
Nice try! Trotting out your completely off the subject “if you don’t pay income tax, you don’t get to vote” argument won’t work; that horse has long ago escaped the barn!
Why, illegal aliens (and all manner of otherwise ineligible people) vote in 21st Century American elections with impunity!
And then, there is this: The passage of 16th Amendment and the imposition on the American people of the Marxist inspired progressive income tax in 1913 fundamentally altered the relationship of We the People to “our” government.
Before passage of the 16th and the first “legal” income tax, We the People were the master and “our” government was the slave; after passage of the 16th and the income tax, government was the master and We the People became the slaves!
We who support the FAIRtax do not like being slaves!
You Flat taxers must be OK with being treated as slaves, since you continue, despite ALL of its flaws, to support an income tax!
Well, good for you, but favoring the Flat tax offers more freedom than the Fair tax. With a Flat tax, you wouldn't even need to file a tax return, so there would be less invasion of privacy that with your Fair Tax. All revenue sources would withhold that fixed percentage of income for the Flat Tax. (Friedman suggested 17%.) Therefore, at the end of the fiscal year, you've already had the taxes you owe withheld. There's no reason for anyone to see your total income because you've already paid them through the withholding.
Bull crap! It is you who is misinformed!
Flat Tax REQUIRES filing a return, but “they promise” that it will be post card size. Since the IRS WILL NOT be disestablished with your fancy Flat Tax, and since the IRS considers all of us poor suffering taxpayers to be tax cheaters, the IRS will grow in size, power, viciousness and rudeness! They will challenge virtually every assertion a poor suffering taxpayer makes on his post card, since the requirement to send them supporting documentation goes away.
You think the IRS will be less intrusive under the Flat Tax? You would be WRONG! BIGLY!
And, please explain to me why the government should have first dibs on OUR money? I/you earned it, and I/you should get to determine how/when to spend it and how much/when to pay taxes!
Under the FAIRtax, every wage earner gets 100% of his/her income (“FRom whatever source derived”), and pays taxes in accordance with what and how much they consume. Every retail transaction is a taxable event, and at the end of EVERY day, we will have paid our taxes. April 15th will become a nice spring day!
BTW, under the FAIRtax, corporate income taxes become a thing of the past – consigned to the ash heap of History! You need to brush up on your facts!
Re: arguments for the FAIRtax and against the Flat Tax, I’ve got mine straight!
NO income tax is best.
Paid out Interest is part of someone else’s Gross Income and needs to be deducted from your Gross Income, because it’s not yours, it’s someone else’s.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.