Donald Trump interview 1980 (Never Aired, Transcript Included)

RB: You are a movement, you are a doer. If you could make America perfect, how would you do it?

DT: Well, I think that America is a country that has tremendous, tremendous potential. I think that much like the mind, I think that America is using very, very little of its potential. I feel that this country with the proper leadership can go on to become what it once was and I hope, and certainly hope that it does go in to be what it, what it should be.

DT: Well, it should be a country, it should really be a country that gets the respect of other countries today that ...

DT: Well, respect can lead to other things. When you get the respect of the other countries, then the other countries tend to do a little bit as you do and you can create the right attitudes. The, the Iranian situation is a case in point that they hold our hostages is just absolutely and totally ridiculous that this country sits back and allows a country such as Iran to hold our hostages to my way of thinking is a horror and I don't think they'd do it with other countries. I honestly don't think they'd do it with other countries.

RB: Obviously you're advocating that we should have gone in there with troops etc and brought our boys and back.

DT: I absolutely feel that yes. I don't think there's any question. There's no question in my mind. I think right now we'd be an oil-rich nation nation and I believe that we should have done it and I'm very disappointed that we didn't do it and I don't think anybody would have held us in abeyance, I don't think anybody would have been angry with us, and we had every right to do it at the time. I think we've lost the opportunity.

RB: For some people the ultimate goal in life has been becoming the President of the United States, would you like to be the President of the United States?

DT: I really don't believe I would Rona but I would like to see somebody as the President who could do the job. There are very capable people in this country.

RB: Most people who are capable are not running for office. Most men are frightened of politics today

DT: It is a shame. The most capable people are not necessarily running for political office and that is a very sad commentary on the country. They had major corporations, and they had this and that, but they are not running for political office.

RB: Why wouldn't someone like yourself run for political office? You have all the money that you possibly need. You've accomplished a great deal even though you are only 34. I know there's a lot of things that you possibly can do in the years ahead. Why wouldn't you dedicate yourself to public service?

DT: Because I think it's a very mean life. I would love and I would, I would dedicate my life to this country but I see it as being a mean life, and I also see it that somebody with strong views and somebody with the kind of views that are maybe a little bit unpopular which may be right but may be unpopular wouldn't necessarily have a chance of getting elected against somebody with no great brain but a big smile, and that's a sad commentary for the political process.

DT: It's hurt the process so much. I mean the Abraham Lincoln's of the world, Abraham Lincoln would probably not be electable today because of television. He was not a handsome man and he did not smile at all. He would not be considered to be a prime candidate for the presidency and that's a shame, isn't it?

RB: But if all the men are like you, then when are we going to get somebody who might be good?

DT: I don't know. I hope it's around the corner, but I don't know. I really don't know. What I would like to be involved in is trying to help choose somebody or working with a group of people whereby they put up a candidate who would be acceptable to be a presidential, you know to, to be the President. The country, if we had the one man, and it's really not that big a situation. You know people say well, what could anybody do as president? One man could turn this country around, one proper president could turn this country around. I firmly believe that.

Here’s the full transcript of entire 47 minutes:

Rona Barrett: You stopped futzing around after 7 1/2
years. What do you think she meant by futzing?

Donald Trump: That is very funny.

Rona Barrett: And Elton said, “Leonard, obviously she
couldn’t tell you what she really meant because the telegraph
operator couldn’t write the real word.”

Donald Trump: That’s right. Very funny.

Rona Barrett: So Leonard said, “Listen, Elton, if you want
to try her in Los Angeles, you be my guest,” and that’s how I
went to broadcasting.

Donald Trump: No kidding.

Rona Barrett: And I had been pounding pavements for 10
years.

Donald Trump: Unbelievable.

Rona Barrett: Ten years, in Los Angeles trying to get them
to put me on television. [Inaudible] Newspapers were dying and
the place to go was the television.

Donald Trump: So then Leonard really was very
instrumental?

Rona Barrett: Leonard — I wrote it in my book, and
everything I think Leonard is —

Donald Trump: Well, he felt very badly you’re leaving, you
know. In person, he told me he was very disappointed.

Rona Barrett: Are you kidding me? He sent me the most
stunning letter. I will always save it forever. He thought it
was a great, great mistake and a great loss to ABC. I did too.
But I couldn’t fight the powers that they —

Donald Trump: When are you going to show those powers,
that maybe?

Rona Barrett: Maybe. Hopefully, hopefully we’ll show them
together, Donald, okay?

Donald Trump: That maybe. You won’t maybe. That maybe,
so anyway. That’s great Rona.

Rona Barrett: Do you think it’s possible, the great
American dream has always been to become a millionaire? For the
people who have nothing, do you think that’s a reality today?
Do you think in the 1980s that anyone can grow up to become a
millionaire? Is that a reality?

Donald Trump: I think nowadays, Rona, I think it’s more
and more of a reality with the lack of incentives that are being
given to so many people. Many more people have a tendency maybe
to give up. And I think the people that don’t, I think they’re
actually finding the ways, or maybe the paths are a little bit
smoother than they were five, and 10, and 15 years ago. It’s a sad commentary but nevertheless it’s possibly easier now than it was 10 years ago.

Rona Barrett: Do you think it is easier to become a
millionaire?

Donald Trump: I really do. I think people, I think many
people who’ve lost incentives, I think that with what’s
happening with even the country as a whole, it’s a sad
situation, and people sort of become a little depressed, and
their own depression and the country’s depression leads to that
lack of incentive. And becoming wealthy, or becoming
successful, or becoming — whatever the word is when you say
becoming anything, I think it largely has to do with incentive
and drive and enthusiasm.

Rona Barrett: You’re 34-years-old. Your assets are
considered to be over a billion dollars. Where did you get the
incentive? I mean 34, it’s so young, Donald.

Donald Trump: Well, I don’t look at, really in my case, necessarily incentive. I enjoy what I’m doing. I really enjoy what I’m doing. I look at it as being somewhat creative. We’ve done developments that people said could not be done. And maybe because of the timing, maybe it was inflation, maybe — whatever the end result has turned out to be tremendous with the various hotels, et cetera. I think I just basically — I thrive on what I do. I enjoy what I do. I Like what I do. It’s not that I’m looking for anything. I just enjoy it. When I get up in the morning, I’m excited about the day.

Rona Barrett: Is work your love?

Donald Trump: It really is. I enjoy so much my work, and
I think that’s probably the key to anybody’s success.

Rona Barrett: Is there anything you can’t have?

Donald Trump: Well, I believe if you think that you can’t
have it, you probably won’t have it. You have to go into
everything with a positive attitude. You know they say that, I
was telling somebody a little bit before, they say that the
human mind is only using one percent of its potential, and that
if the human mind could use three percent, you could do
literally anything. You could cure the major diseases. You
could do anything, just one mind in this world if it could get
up to three percent of its maximum potential. So let’s say you
don’t get up to three percent, but if you can get a little bit
more out of than the one percent, I think you’re going to be
able to do pretty much whatever you want to do if you have the
basic ingredients going in.

Rona Barrett: But in terms of specifics, I totally agree
about positive thinking. But you, is there anything you can’t
have materialistically or emotionally? Is there something that
your money cannot buy?

Donald Trump: Well, that’s a very nice question, Rona.
I’m not sure that there’s an answer to it. I mean, I’m quite
happy with everything. I’m quite happy with the way
everything’s worked out for me at this point, and this point
hasn’t been very far. In 10 years, if we sit down at the same
situation, maybe I’ll tell you, “Rona, you know, I’ve made
mistakes here and mistakes there,” which today I don’t think are
mistakes. But at this moment I would say —
By the way, money is not the ingredient. Money has nothing
to do with the ingredient. It’s just whether I was an artist,
I’m just pushing my work and enjoying my work. Whatever it is.
I think you just have to be happy in what you do. In my case,
by the way, my art is my real estate and my buildings, and if
the deals work out well, that makes me happy because that’s sort
of a sign of accomplishment. That’s pretty much the way I feel
about it.

Rona Barrett: Do you think that the acquisition of wealth
though is an absolute aphrodisiac?

Donald Trump: No, not at all. In fact, I think in many
cases it really creates problems that you normally wouldn’t
have.

Rona Barrett: Like what?

Donald Trump: Well, many. You’re expected to be a certain
kind of a person, and maybe you’re not necessarily cut out to be
that kind of a person. You know you’re cast very much as being
in the movies. You’re cast in a certain role, and maybe your
role isn’t that role after 7:00 or 6:00 or 5:00 or whatever it
is that you come back home from the office. There are things
and pressures placed on you that normally you wouldn’t have.
And I’ve often said the happiest people and the most contented
people that I’ve seen, and I know the very wealthy, I know the
moderately wealthy, and I guess I know people a lot less than
that, but the happiest people tend to be the people that are
making a nice income, that really enjoy their life and their
family life, and not the people of tremendous wealth that are
constantly driven to achieve more and more success.

Rona Barrett: But when is enough, enough? Obviously,
there must have been a time, a point when you knew that you
would be secure for the rest of your life, your family, your
relatives, whomever. Why do you go on?

Donald Trump: I go on really because I enjoy it. I really
enjoy when I think about my business. I think about it
literally 24 hours a day, and I really enjoy it. If I didn’t, I
will stop. There’s no question in my mind that I’ll stop
because I do understand it’s all basically a game. We’re all
here to play the game, and we’re all hopefully going to play it
well. But some people obviously can’t play it well because if
everyone played it well, you’d have a pretty unusual situation.

But the game is being played now by me and by plenty of other
people, and the people that enjoy it are the people that have
been winner, in my opinion.

Rona Barrett: When you win, is there sometimes a time when
you also lose? Because in winning, there is also losing. Have
you ever lost?

Donald Trump: Well, I guess you can say — I would imagine
everybody has lost at some point or another. If I had at this
point in my life looked at any particular business transaction
or anything, I could say that I have not lost in that regard.
Personally, I have a wonderful wife and family, and everyone has
a nice relationship having to do with me.
So I really can say that thus far in life, I’ve been quite
lucky. But I also understand life, and life is a long term
investment. It’s not a short term investment. And relatively
speaking, I guess I’m only midterm or short term, so I can’t
really tell you what’s going to happen in the future. But I do
feel very positively about the future, and I hope that all goes
well, and I think that — again, my mind is made up that it will
go well without consciously thinking and just saying just so I
can convince myself. I mean, I feel that things will go well.
If you feel that way, I believe they probably will go well.

Rona Barrett: Were you always so lucky from the time you
were a little boy?

Donald Trump: I guess the answer — and by the way, a
word, a very important word you just mentioned is luck. No
matter how bright a person may be, there is always that element
of luck. And yet, the interesting phenomena to me seems to be
that the same people are always lucky, so maybe they create
their own luck or they make their own luck. But I would say
that I have certainly had my share of luck, yes.

Rona Barrett: Tell me about the early days of Donald
Trump. I mean, were you born into wealth? I know your father
was successful. But when you came along, was he already
successful?

Donald Trump: Oh yes. My father was very successful. My
father built homes and apartment houses in various sections and
did very well. I was brought up in the construction business,
so to speak, and I enjoyed it from day one. I went to the good
colleges. I went through all of the normal process.

Rona Barrett: I guess what I want to know because I think
lots of people out there might want to know, what was your life
like? I mean, did you live in a house? Did you live in an
apartment? Did you have brothers and sisters? I think you’re
one of five.

Donald Trump: That’s correct.

Rona Barrett: I mean, what kind of a family life did you
have? Did you go outside and play ball, or did you have what we
call a normal life, a normal upbringing? Or were you constantly
taught from day one, “Donald, you must be a success and gear
your head this way, and travel down that road, and never move to
the left, and never move to the right”?

Donald Trump: Well, Rona, I think I was probably brought
up in a very normal fashion. We did have a house. I do have
brothers and sisters. I have wonderful parents, wonderful
family, really great, very wonderful family. I think we’re a
very highly motivated family. But again, I would never use the
word ambition, and because to me ambition is a bad word. It’s
not ambitious. You know, when I see people saying, “I’m going
to do this. I’m going to do that. I’m so ambitious.” It
really sickens me to listen to them talk, and I think it’s just
something that we were motivated and properly motivated. I
think we’re motivated for the right things. We were also
motivated toward family and toward good things.
But I like to think that maybe the ideas that I’ve had have
created what we’ve created over the past five or six years.
Ideas that maybe at the time people didn’t believe in. A lot of
people didn’t believe in them. You know, we built a hotel at a
location and at a time in New York City’s history when people
were saying, “Oh, forget about it. It just cannot happen. It
can’t work,” et cetera. Now the hotel is open, and I guess it’s
known as one of the greatest successes in real estate in the
United States.

Rona Barrett: That’s the Grand Hyatt?

Donald Trump: That’s the Grand Hyatt, which is built right
next to Grand Central Terminal. We tried to convince the city
to build a convention center when they had fought for 12 years
to build a center on a different site, over the Hudson River
which was unbuildable. You couldn’t build it. It would cost
too much. And we came up with a different location, and we were
successful in convincing them, and now they’re building a
$375 million convention center at a site that we wanted them to
build it at.
But at the time, people said, “The city will never have a
convention center. The city has got its difficulties.” Today,
New York is the hottest city in the world I would say. I don’t
think there’s — and we are in other cities, but I don’t think
there’s a city in the world that is so viable today as New York.
All of the Europeans are looking to come to New York. Many, as
a matter of fact, and I don’t like to say it because I know
you’re from California, but many of my friends from California
are now looking to come back to New York for some reason. It’s
the psychology. It’s a great change and a great shift in the
mind from what it was five years ago. But I’ve made a lot of
transactions and deals five years ago having to do with New
York, and hoping that New York would come back, and it’s come
back frankly much stronger than I thought it would be possible.

Rona Barrett: Tell me about that dream. Tell me how does
that dream come about. Do you wake up one day and you say, “I
want 30th Street on the Westside. I want 42nd Street on the
Eastside. I want the Tiffany location, 57th Street and Fifth
Avenue.” What happens, Donald? Tell me about that process.

Donald Trump: Well, it’s a process and it’s something that
you maybe have an instinct for. The finest piece of real
estate, considered to be the finest piece of real estate in the
world, is at the corner of Fifth Avenue and 57th Street. That’s
the Tiffany corner of the world, and you can go to California.
You can go to Des Moines, Iowa. You can go anywhere, and you
say, “What’s the Tiffany location?” It’s become a phrase.
The Tiffany location is Fifth Avenue and 57th Street. And
for many years, I mean even when I was so young that they were
throwing me out of the company, the people that owned that
particular location, for many years, I went to a certain public
company, a large company, and tried to buy the block with the
exception of Tiffany.

Rona Barrett: How old were you?

Donald Trump: Well, I guess I started that when I was 27,
and they said, “Forget it. Forget it.” A major department
store happened to be located on that block. It was called
Bonwit Teller. And they would always say, “Forget it, forget
it, forget it.” And one day I got a phone call, and I’d always
forward by the way the letters and asked for a meeting, and this
and that, and one day I got a phone call and they wanted to know
if we wanted to make a deal very quickly and very easily. And I
guess I was the only one because everyone assumed frankly that
that block of real estate would never be sold, and it was sold.
We proceeded to buy the air rights over Tiffany, which is a
zoning term for area and space over Tiffany, and we’re now
building a 68-storey tower at Fifth Avenue and 57th Street which
is going to be, I believe, the most spectacular building of its
kind in the world.

Rona Barrett: Considering the pollution problem we have
today, do you think that was a good buy?

Donald Trump: The pollution problem? Well, it’s above the
pollution.

Rona Barrett: Buying the air?

Donald Trump: Oh, I’d say, okay. Well, I think it was a
good buy. I think it will be a fabulous situation for the
people that are going to be moving into the building. Everybody
really in the world is excited about that building because
nobody believed it would be possible that kind of a building in
that location because nobody ever assumed that that location
could possibly be purchased. But all of a sudden it was, and
maybe it was mind over matter again. You know, maybe you just
really believe that someday you’ll own that location and you end
up owning that location. So maybe it is mind over matter.
Maybe it’s luck. Maybe I was lucky that they happen to call me
very quickly instead of calling any one of a number of other
people that would have jumped on it. But they did call me and I
bought the site.

Rona Barrett: To attain the kinds of things that you have
attained in real estate, can you do it without having political
clout?

Donald Trump: Yes, I believe so. I mean, people give me a
lot of credit for having political clout which I really
necessarily don’t have. I look at my ideas as something that
sell themselves, and I think the politicians in New York have
been very decent and very open as far as Donald Trump is
concerned. I think they’ve, number one, looked at the project,
and they’ve said the projects are great. The projects and the
ideas are good. But the convention center is an example. That
convention center that I proposed was many times better than any
of the other competing convention centers because everybody that
had a site that was large tried to convince the city and state
to build that on their site. But the fact is, our site was
better. It was adjudged to be better, and I think politically
speaking I think what the state is going to do is they’re going
to build a better convention center in a better location than
originally planned, and they’re going to save at least
$100 million over and above what they were originally talking
about building the center for. So I don’t know what that has to
do with the political connections, although I have been accused
of having political connections.

Rona Barrett: Do you have political connections?

Donald Trump: I really say no.

Rona Barrett: You say no?

Donald Trump: I absolutely say no. I think if I went —

Rona Barrett: Is it because people think that it’s ugly
like the word ambition to have political friends who could help
you?

Donald Trump: No. Well, in fact I do have many political
friends, but I really believe that without the proper ideas and
the proper concepts and the proper planning, and you know — I
don’t believe I could have sold one of the other convention
center sites. I believe my site was the best. I really believe
that, and I don’t think I would have been successful in trying
to sell one of the other sites as the other groups were not
successful in selling their site.
I believe that the Grand Hyatt Hotel, which has now opened
up and which is booked out and tremendously — it’s just a
tremendous operation. At the time I did it, the hotel that
occupied that site was a closed, boarded up building, and people
were not exactly — even against the fact that we got various
tax abatements, et cetera, et cetera for that particular site.
What’s happened is the area has turned out to be triple A.
Philip Morris is building its world headquarters. The Chrysler
building is booming. The rents over there are tremendous. The
area is thriving. We’re doing the restoration of Grand Central
Terminal. It has turned out to be a wonderful idea. But at the
time, everyone loved my idea because they thought it might lead
to the total revival of the Grand Central Terminal area, and it
has.

Rona Barrett: But what made you think of it though? Was
it just because it was a piece of property that you could
acquire for the right price and you thought it was? Did you do
some feasibility studies? I mean, what said to you one day,
Donald, you must go and buy the old Commodore Hotel and
transform that into the new Grand Hyatt?

Donald Trump: Well, I think it was monumental. You know
it was a monumental approach to things that I’ve sort of
developed. The building itself was there. You had Grand
Central Terminal there. You have the Pan-Am building. You have
the Chrysler building there. The whole area is monumental. The
key to that area was the old Commodore Hotel which was now
gutted and redone and it’s a spectacular hotel.
The process of doing the monumental deal to me has always
been much easier than the process of doing the small deal.
Instead we have friends that were in different locations trying
to get similar tax abatements as I got for my hotel. They were
doing non-monumental projects — a little shopping center in
Queens. Another one was doing a little shopping center in
Brooklyn. All having the same basic thing. My deal was much
easier to work than theirs because it was a monumental project.
It was easy getting the tax abatement. It was easier getting
the financing for the project. It was easier getting
everything.
Even though the numbers were much bigger, even though the
project was many, many, many times bigger, my deal in a sense
was easier than theirs because everybody reacted to my deal,
whereas they didn’t want to bother with the shopping center
concept, and they didn’t want to bother with another little
concept someplace else. So I really believe it’s easier to do
the big concepts that have a certain amount of glamour, and you
know the word glamour very well, than it is to do the smaller
what seemingly would be the easier deal but really I think in
fact turns out generally to be the harder kind of transaction.

Rona Barrett: A big deal, a small deal, no matter what
deal you’re ever in, even though you may win in the final
analysis, sometimes a door gets closed in your face. How do you
get those doors opened? What makes you go on?

Donald Trump: Well, you do get many doors closed. There’s
no question about that, Rona. That’s something that has
happened in many cases, and I guess you just have to keep going.
I guess you really just have to keep pushing and just get going,
and a funny thing is once you open the first door, it becomes a
lot easier to open the second door. I mean, for instance,
today, it’s much easier for me to have things happen than it
would have been five years ago before any of these conceptions
or conceptual ideas really came into fruition. Today, it’s much
easier for me to make a phone call and trying to have something
happen than it was five years ago.

Rona Barrett: Can you remember your very first deal?

Donald Trump: Well, I’ve always been making deals even
when I was very young.

Rona Barrett: Yeah, when you’re very young. How old were
you when you set out without any help from anyone to make your
very first deal?

Donald Trump: That I couldn’t say, but I can tell you that
it’s an instinct that some people have where they enjoy doing
certain things, and I’ve always enjoyed being somewhat creative
and working out various deal concepts. But I really couldn’t
tell you what the first was, Rona.

Rona Barrett: Were you 12 or 13 years old when you began
thinking about concepts? Were you younger than that? Did it
start when you were in your teens, in your early 20s? When do
you think it really all began for you?

Donald Trump: I guess probably sometime during high
school, and during college, and during whatever. I think you
probably just start forming — the brain cells start forming in
that direction. But I really don’t know when exactly. I wish I
could answer that question a little bit better.

Rona Barrett: There was an article recently that
headlined, “Like Father, Like Son.” Are you like your dad?

Donald Trump: Well, I hope so. I have a very wonderful
father, and I would hope I’d be somewhat like my father.

Rona Barrett: What’s he like?

Donald Trump: Strong, dynamic gentleman.

Rona Barrett: Is he loving, kind, giving?

Donald Trump: Absolutely, totally.

Rona Barrett: Could you go to him anytime you had a
problem? Was he that kind of a father?

Donald Trump: Absolutely, I could, yes.

Rona Barrett: There’s always been this sort of thing, this
theory about people who are born into wealth that the parents
shuttle them off to private schools, that you have nannies and
governesses, that your parents are really never around when you
need them. A lot of children of the well-to-do have never
really been very happy. Some have grown up of course. There is
always the exception to the rule.

Donald Trump: That’s right.

Rona Barrett: Were you shunted off to private schools or
did you go to public schools? What was that like?

Donald Trump: I was sent to private schools but probably
never shunted off. I went to the private schools and I went
through the whole scenario, but I’ve always had parents who were
very supportive. In fact, very supportive over the last five,
and six, and seven years because I needed support over the last
five or six years. I was being criticized very badly for
concepts and ideas that probably at the time would not have been
viable, and it turned out that they turned out to be very
viable. So I needed the support of a good family and a strong
family, and a family that backed my thinking, and they did.
Now, I think they can sit back and say, “Well, we made the right
decision.” But I’ve always had a very supportive family.

Rona Barrett: Are you hurt by criticism?

Donald Trump: No, not really. I’ve been used to criticism
because I’ve taken a lot of criticism over the last number of
years.

Rona Barrett: I don’t think anybody gets used to criticism
though, Donald. I think you can develop sort of what I call a
right guard shield around you, but I think the first time people
start attacking you, if you’ve never been attacked before, it’s
a feeling and an emotion and an action that is not accustomed,
that you’re not accustomed to. How do you handle it, or how did
you handle it the first time?

Donald Trump: First of all, I think you are right. I
think you probably never really get used to it in the total
sense, and maybe all I’m doing when you say, you know, “Do you
mind criticisms?” and I say, “No, I really don’t.” Maybe I’m
just creating my own little psychological wedge we all suffer
maybe for that kind of a question. But you just have to go with
it. I mean, you’re always going to be criticized no matter what
you do, and you have to realize it, and you really have to
develop a little bit of a tough skin. And if you don’t, you
really cannot survive, I suspect, doing anything of any great
importance.

Rona Barrett: Do you like having a tough skin? Do you
think you have to have a killer instinct in order to be
successful?

Donald Trump: I think you have to some — to a large
extent I think you do have to have, at least a winning instinct.
I think that the world is made up of people with either killer
instincts or without killer instincts, and the people that seem
to emerge all the time — it doesn’t mean they’re the best
people, and it doesn’t mean they’re the happiest people, and in
fact in many cases and in most cases they’re probably not. But
the people that seemed to emerge are the people that are
competitive and driven and with a certain instinct to win.

Rona Barrett: You used the word competitive and driven.
I’d like to know, what drives you?

Donald Trump: Enjoyment. Pure and simple enjoyment, Rona.

Rona Barrett: I want to buy the enjoyment, but somehow I
feel that there is something underneath it, that there is
something more that makes you want to succeed, want to be who
you are. What do you think it is? Think about it.

Donald Trump: Maybe I can just add the word creativity. I
really enjoy creating, and maybe this is my form of creativity.
You know, building a 68-story building on Fifth Avenue is my
form of creativity and making it the finest, not only the
location but instead of building an average building, we’re
going to make it the finest building in the world. And maybe
that’s my form of enjoyment, which gives me a little bit more
drive than somebody else may or may not have which allows me to
do these things. But I feel that enjoyment really has a large
part to do with it, creativity, and just incentive, just having
the incentive to go out and do something.
Rona Barrett: Everything I’ve read about you, listening to
you speak, as I think I said in the very beginning, work
apparently is your love. Is that true?

Donald Trump: Well, work is something that I enjoy very
much. I can’t say that it’s my love. I mean, I have a lot of
other things that, you know, are very dear and very dear to me,
but I certainly do enjoy work and it is certainly a love.

Rona Barrett: I was going to ask you. Is there room for a
wife and a child on your list of priorities?

Donald Trump: Oh, sure. I mean, marriage is a very
important thing for people. I fully believe it. I think that
having the home and having the stability, and I’ve had it all
different ways. I mean, I’ve had it the other way, and I’ve had
it the marriage way, and I think that marriage is very
important. Having a good wife and having a nice family is very,
very important. There is no substitute for it, frankly. There
really is no substitute for it.

Rona Barrett: Are you friends?

Donald Trump: Yes, absolutely. With my wife, absolutely.

Rona Barrett: Is it important?

Donald Trump: I think it’s the most important thing. I
mean you have to be best friends. If you’re not going to be
best friends, then the marriage cannot work. No matter what the
other ingredients are, the marriage really can’t work.

Rona Barrett: Speaking of friends, is it easy for a man of
wealth to develop friendships, friendships in the traditional
sense?

Donald Trump: Well, I think it’s easier to develop
friendships but I’m not so sure when you get back down to the
traditional sense, and that would be the friends that are here
in good times and bad. I’m not so sure necessarily how many of
those friends would be around if things did take a turn for the
worst.
I’ve oftentimes thought that I’d like to test some people
and find out and just played a little game of doing the testing
and which has been done on occasion. But it’s very easy to
develop friends but it’s very hard to see whether or not they’re
real friends.

Rona Barrett: Do you think a real friend has to be someone
who has the same things you have? Monetarily speaking.

Donald Trump: No, I don’t think so. I think probably
maybe just the opposite. I would not say so. I think that —

Rona Barrett: But isn’t there a doubt then in your mind
that you’re always wondering if that person isn’t there to try
to get something from you, Donald Trump?

Donald Trump: Oh, there would always be that doubt, but if
you know people well enough, I think maybe one of my greatest
strengths is understanding people, you know, specific people for
specific jobs, and just understanding the human psyche of other
people, maybe not even my own quite as well, but of other
people. And I’d like to think that I can tell the difference
between somebody that’s looking for one thing and somebody
that’s looking for the other, Rona. But you really never can, I
mean, no matter how well you understand people until there’s a
time of test, and we shall see what we shall see.

Rona Barrett: Do you have a best friend?

Donald Trump: I have a lot of very good friends.

Rona Barrett: A lot of good friends?

Donald Trump: Yeah, I would say that I have a lot of very
good friends. But again, my business is so all encompassing I
don’t really get the pleasure of being with friends that much
frankly.

Rona Barrett: This is a strange question to ask, but God
forbid, you got sick in the middle of the night, and your wife
and your child weren’t around, and your housekeeping wasn’t
around, and your parents weren’t around. Who would you call if
you were in trouble?

Donald Trump: Maybe I’ll call you Rona, you know, I mean
you’re such a nice woman and you look like you know your way
around certainly, so maybe I’d give you a little buzz.

Rona Barrett: But I’m not your best friend there.

Donald Trump: No. I know. I don’t know. I guess I would
have a list of people. Certainly, I’d have to think of one very
quickly obviously if that circumstance arrived.

Rona Barrett: But if there was somebody, I would imagine
that person would have been sitting right there now on the top
of your head when I asked you that question.

Donald Trump: That could very well be. I’m not sure that
I’d want to necessarily say that on television who that person
might be.

Rona Barrett: Well, I mean you might say to me, “I have
such a person but I’d rather not mention the name.”

Donald Trump: Yeah, I would say that I would have —
actually a few such people who I could call interchangeably.
But I probably wouldn’t mention who they would be.

Rona Barrett: In 30 years from now, your son will be approximately the age that you are today, would you like to see the same kind of headline as was written about you, Father like Son?

Donald Trump: I think that it’d be fine, but I think more
important to me would be that my son would be happy, that my
family would be happy. I mean, I really don’t care that much
whether or not he decides to go into this business or go into
another business. I find this business very exciting. I find
this business to be show business frankly. You know, in terms
of what we’ve done, I’d like to make it a little bit showbizzy
because I don’t like show business that much. I do like the
real estate business but I like the concept of show business as
it relates to the real estate business. But I would like my son
mostly to be happy, and if he’s happy then I’m really satisfied.
If he’d be happy doing what I’m doing, then I’ll be probably a
little bit more satisfied.

Rona Barrett: Though he’s only 2 1/2 or 3 at this time, do
you begin to teach him about the value of a dollar?

Donald Trump: Well, I would say I haven’t devoted
tremendous amount of time to teaching about the value of the
dollar, but he is learning about the value of life I think. Not
necessarily the value of the dollar, and I think he is somebody
that enjoys his life, and hopefully we can keep it that way.

Rona Barrett: It’s a funny thing. A thought came to me.
Lots of kids play with blocks. Your son playing with blocks
doesn’t necessarily mean little squares but perhaps 57th Street,
and 42nd Street, and 30th Street? Do you think about that?

Donald Trump: Not really, not really, Rona. I just keep
pushing along and I just hope that you know, again, I just hope
that my son is going to be happy.

Rona Barrett: One day, if someone were to make a movie.
You talked about show business and the relationship here. One
day if someone were to make a movie of your life, who would you
see playing yourself?

Donald Trump: Maybe myself. I have to tell you that I
really — I really could not answer that question. I really
could not answer.

Rona Barrett: Are you trying to say that after you’ve
accomplished all in real estate, you might like to try acting?

Donald Trump: Oh no, oh no. Not at all, Rona. Believe me
that would be something that I would have no interest in, no
interest whatsoever. I really wouldn’t be able to tell you who
would play the so-called leading role.

Rona Barrett: Would you like to see your life in the
movies?

Donald Trump: No, not at all.

Rona Barrett: You don’t think you’re that exciting a
person that you’ve had such an interesting story that you —

Donald Trump: Well, I always like to say that I think my
deals are the most exciting deals. I don’t necessarily want the
excitement for myself, and that I’ve always been somewhat
guarded about that. I mean I do think we probably have, and I’m
not saying, it has been recognized that we are the most exciting
real estate transactions in the country at this moment, and I
would say that I think they’re very bright themselves. They are
very exciting, and that satisfies me. That’s my excitement is
it’s really seeing what happens with them.

Rona Barrett: Do you have to worry about the drudgery that
we have to worry about? I mean, going to the market, buying the
things that you need for your house, for your homes. Do you do
things like that? You have somebody who do things like that for
you.

Donald Trump: No. We live a very normal life, and we
always have to — everybody has to worry about drudgery in one
form or the other. But, no, we do quite a bit of work. You’d
be surprised, Rona.

Rona Barrett: Can I see you one day walking the streets or
going into a market and buying food for your family or for
yourself?

Donald Trump: You might. I mean, if you pick the right
day, it could happen.

Rona Barrett: It could happen, really?

Donald Trump: It could probably happen, yes.

Rona Barrett: Do you have religion?

Donald Trump: Yes.

Rona Barrett: I don’t mean a formal religion. Do you have
a philosophy I guess is what I’m saying?

Donald Trump: I think my philosophy basically is there has
to be something to this. I mean we just can’t be put here for
the sake of living our 60, 70, 80, 90, 100 years, whatever it
might be, and just end up with nothing at the end of that time
after all the combat, and I really look at life to a certain
extent as combat. There has to be something. I mean we have to
be in a test period or there has to be something after this.
Otherwise, it just seems so futile.

Rona Barrett: Now, are you metaphysical?

Donald Trump: No.

Rona Barrett: Do you believe that there is a hereafter?

Donald Trump: I believe there probably is a hereafter,
yes.

Rona Barrett: Do you believe that we come on earth to
learn certain lessons about life?

Donald Trump: I believe we come on earth maybe as a
testing period, and maybe for whatever reason. I guess again
that goes back to the mind with a 1 percent and the 3 percent,
that we could expand the 3 percent of the use of the mind maybe
we’d be able to figure out what happens afterwards, but we
probably will not be able to figure that out.

Rona Barrett: Since you brought up that thought, you must
have been given some time to that idea. Why do you think in
34 years that you’ve been brought here?

Donald Trump: Well, I have done a couple of things which
maybe on the outside don’t appear to be very humanitarian but I
think inwardly I think they probably are. We have created
thousands of jobs for people that maybe wouldn’t have jobs
today. We’ve created, you know, industry in the city which
again while today it’s thriving and probably considered the best
five years ago. At the time we did it, it was not considered to
be thriving, and in my own way I suspect that we’ve just created
a certain amount of happiness in many houses where instead of
going on a welfare line or whatever the people have now come
home with a nice paycheck, who are now working successfully in
one of our developments. So I think in a sense maybe I was put
on earth to help fulfill that function, and I think that’s an
important function.

Rona Barrett: Can you — I don’t like to use the word
rationalize, but maybe that is the word. You received a great
deal of criticism when you tore down the Bonwit building.

Donald Trump: Right.

Rona Barrett: People wanted those wonderful sculptures
donated to wherever they wanted it to go, and yet you created
jobs for people on the other hand by building a brand new
edifice. How do you reconcile that?

Donald Trump: In that case, I reconciled it by saying the
fact that that building was at that location was the only thing
that gave the old building any value. If that building were in
a different location, in a different city, or in a different
borough, or whatever. It would have had no artistic value
whatsoever. It just happened to be sitting at the corner of
Fifth Avenue and 57th Street, and that gave it a false value as
a building itself. The second thing is I do value human life
and human safety, and having taken those down, I can tell you
that if we try to save them, it’s very possible, and they were
15 feet high. There were about a foot thick of solid concrete
and stone, and if anybody ever tried to take them down, there
was a very substantial chance that they would have slipped on to
Fifth Avenue, and if that would have happened, people would have
been very badly hurt and killed below. The process of trying to
redeem or trying to save things of little or no artistic merit,
based on some basic criticism, getting back to the word
criticism, was to me not worth the safety of peoples’ lives.

Rona Barrett: That’s it?

Donald Trump: Oh absolutely. That will always take
precedent with me.

Rona Barrett: It seems to me that anyone who has acquired
the kind of wealth that you have, has had to make some
compromises. Do you have any regrets?

Donald Trump: About that particular aspect?

Rona Barrett: About that and anything else.

Donald Trump: No, I don’t have any regrets about that. I
can tell you just crazy, crazy things happened. As you have
just said, we’ve gotten tremendous amount of publicity because
we ripped down the Bonwit Teller building, and people considered
it landmark status, and people considered it this and that. I
would have assumed there would have been negative publicity.
What’s happened is we’ve gotten literally thousands of phone
calls because of that publicity, and people wanting to move in
to that building. So it’s had an exact reverse — it’s a
phenomenon as far as I’m concerned, but the human mind is the
greatest phenomenon of all I suspect. But we’ve gotten actually
a very positive response from people. Most people understand
that in order to make progress, you have to do things which are
not necessarily going to make you the most popular boy in the
block, and that’s what we did. In that case, we had a decision
to make and we had to make a decision.

Rona Barrett: Is that something you learned all by
yourself, or was instilled in you by your father or your
grandparents, or anyone?

Donald Trump: I think maybe it’s something that was
instilled, and maybe it’s something that you’ve learned through
a little bit of trial and error over the years. I think this
country maybe is a good example. I just don’t feel the country
is going forward in the proper direction. We could have made
quick decisions and we would have been a lot better off than the
way we’ve been sitting around over the last couple of years, and
just watching everybody else do everything, and we just sit back
and take everybody’s abuse. It’s a very sad situation that
somebody isn’t there making the decisions and pushing the right
and proper — I don’t want to use the word buttons frankly —
but pushing the right lever so that we can go out and do things
as we’re supposed to be doing them.

Rona Barrett: You are a mover. You are a doer. If you
could make America perfect, how would you do it?

Donald Trump: Well, I think that America is a country that
has tremendous, tremendous potential. I think that much like
the mind I think that America is using very, very little of its
potential. I feel that this country with the proper leadership
can go on to become what it once was, and I hope, and certainly
hope, that it does go on to be what it should be.

Rona Barrett: What should it be?

Donald Trump: It should really be a country that gets the
respect of other countries.

Rona Barrett: Is respect the most important thing in your
opinion?

Donald Trump: Respect can lead to other things. When you
get the respect of the other countries, then the other countries
tend to do a little bit as you do, and you can create the right
attitudes. The Iranian situation is a case in point. That they
hold our hostages is just absolutely, and totally ridiculous.
That this country sits back and allows a country such as Iran to
hold our hostages, to my way of thinking, is a horror, and I
don’t think they’d do it with other countries. I honestly don’t
think they’d do it with other countries.

Rona Barrett: Obviously you’re advocating that we should
have gone in there with troops, et cetera, and brought our boys
out like Vietnam.

Donald Trump: I absolutely feel that, yes. I don’t think
there’s any question, and there is no question in my mind. I
think right now we’d be an oil-rich nation, and I believe that
we should have done it, and I’m very disappointed that we didn’t
do it, and I don’t think anybody would have held us in abeyance.
I don’t think anybody would have been angry with us, and we had
every right to do it at the time. I think we’ve lost the
opportunity.

Rona Barrett: Donald, would you have wanted to be one of
those men to have gone to Iran, and then taken those fellows
out?

Donald Trump: No, I wouldn’t have wanted to be, but I
would have done it.

Rona Barrett: Would you?

Donald Trump: Absolutely. If I were the age, if I were in
the military.

Rona Barrett: You know a lot of those fellows who went for
that aborted coup, who were 34-years-old and older. They were
your age.

Donald Trump: That’s right.

Rona Barrett: If you were called upon, would you? I know
it’s easy to say, “Yes, of course I would go,” but if the phone
rang right now, and someone from the selective service would
say, “Donald, we’re taking every young man, 34 years of age.
We’re sending him to war.” Would you go to war?

Donald Trump: No, I don’t see a war. You see the war is -
- this is not a Vietnam situation fortunately. The war in fact
with Iraq —

Rona Barrett: There is a war raging there right now.

Donald Trump: Oh yes, there is a war, and it’s a war where
nobody has any tanks, has any guns. It’s a war where everyone
is standing around. That would have been the easiest victory we
would have ever won, in my opinion.

Rona Barrett: Well, when I look at television, I see men
being shot up like being blown off.

Donald Trump: But you’re talking about two non-existent
armies. I mean Iran has an army composed of American equipment
without parts and without anything else, and Iraq has a very
weak army, and they’re just really fighting each other, and it’s
almost hand-to-hand combat if you see now. It’s a sad
situation, Rona, but it’s a situation which ultimately is going
to get much worse. That little sparkle of war, that little
sparkle, is going to lead in my opinion to a much, much greater
conflict, and I think that’s very unfortunate. I think a lot of
it has to do with this country and the fact that this country is
not more involved in terms of setting policy in that area.

Rona Barrett: Do you think perhaps that the oil industry
is responsible for this as the late Shah once implied?

Donald Trump: I wouldn’t want to criticize the oil
industry because I wouldn’t know enough about it but I can tell
you that I think this country is responsible for that war by its
own weaknesses. I don’t think you’d have this war if they —
again using the other word, if we were respected, properly
respected as a country and as a people, and as a nation. I
don’t think that you would have the war going on right now
between Iran and Iraq. I don’t think that Iran would have our
hostages for 10 minutes if they respected this country. I don’t
believe they would have our hostages for 10 minutes.

Rona Barrett: For some people the ultimate goal in life
has been becoming the President of the United States, would you
like to be the President of the United States?

Donald Trump: I really don’t believe I would, Rona. But I
would like to see somebody as the president who could do the
job, and there are very capable people in this country.

Rona Barrett: Most people who are capable and not running
for office. Most men are frightened of politics today.

Donald Trump: It is a shame, isn’t it?

Rona Barrett: Yes.

Donald Trump: It is a shame. The most capable people are
not necessarily running for political office, and that is a very
sad commentary on the country. They head major corporations,
and they had this and that, but they are not running for
political office.

Rona Barrett: Why wouldn’t someone like yourself run for
political office? You have all the money that you possibly
need. You’ve accomplished a great deal even though you are only
34. I know there’s a lot of things that you possibly can do in
the years ahead. Why wouldn’t you dedicate yourself to public
service?

Donald Trump: Because I think it’s a very mean life. I
would love, and I would dedicate my life to this country but I
see it as being a mean life, and I also see it in somebody with
strong views, and somebody with the kind of views that are maybe
a little bit unpopular, which may be right, but may be
unpopular, wouldn’t necessarily have a chance of getting elected
against somebody with no great brain but a big smile. That’s a
sad commentary for the political process.

Rona Barrett: Television in a strange way has ruined that
process, hasn’t it?

Donald Trump: It’s hurt the process very much. I mean the
Abraham Lincoln’s of the world. Abraham Lincoln would probably
not be electable today because of television. He was not a
handsome man, and he did not smile at all. He would not be
considered to be a prime candidate for the presidency, and
that’s a shame, isn’t it?

Rona Barrett: But if all the men are like you, then when
are we going to get somebody who might be good?

Donald Trump: I don’t know. I hope it’s around the
corner, but I don’t know. I really don’t know. What I would
like to be involved in is trying to help choose somebody, or
working with a group of people whereby they put up a candidate
who would be acceptable to be a presidential, you know, to be
the president. The country if we have the one man, and it’s
really not that big a situation. You know people say, “Well,
what could anybody do as president?” One man could turn this
country around. The one proper president could turn this
country around. I firmly believe that.

Rona Barrett: You think there is one man?

Donald Trump: There is one man that can turn this country
around. I could tell you, I know a number of people that would
be excellent presidents. I will not tell you who they are, but
I know a number of people that could be excellent presidents of
this country. But they are not running for political office.
They are not in political office. They are extraordinarily
brilliant. They are very, very confident. They are leaders.
They have the respect of everybody, and they would be fabulous
presidents. But they’re not running for political office, and I
think that’s very sad, and I think you said it. Maybe
television is a thing that most hurt the political process in
this country.

Rona Barrett: If you lost your fortune today, what would
you do tomorrow?

Donald Trump: Maybe I’d run for president. I don’t know.

Rona Barrett: You mean you think you have to be bankrupt,
with not a dime in your pocket in order to be a good president?

Donald Trump: No, I’m only kidding. You know when I say
that of course I’m being somewhat fictitious. But I have to
tell you a lot of people would vote for you if you were in that
position because they feel sorry for you, and again I think
that’s a very sad commentary. I think that’s a very sad
commentary.

Rona Barrett: Yet every man who has aspired to the White
House in recent years has been a millionaire and better.

Donald Trump: Well, that could be but I don’t consider
millionaires are better. If you know, Plaines, Georgia, I’m not
sure if that’s necessarily a millionaire or better. I really
look at a person’s mind and his own individual confidence, not
necessarily his wallet.

Rona Barrett: Do you think there’s a distinction between
millionaires and millionaire?

Donald Trump: Oh, absolutely. There’s a great
distinction.

Rona Barrett: What is the distinction?

Donald Trump: I mean millionaires today are — they’ve
done a study that there are 500,000 millionaires in the United
States, and this or that. Well, I look at really again — I
don’t like to look at the distinction between wealth and wealth,
because once you’ve attained a certain wealth, it all doesn’t
really matter. I really like to look at the individual
characteristics of a person and to see whether or not that
person is really what I like a person to be.

Rona Barrett: Do you think wealth corrupts?

Donald Trump: No. I think it can but I don’t think it
does in all cases. It certainly can corrupt.

Rona Barrett: Fred said that there were two things in
life, love and work. If you had to choose one, which would you
choose?

Donald Trump: I don’t think I could choose one. I think
I’d choose both, and I think they can both work hand in hand.
In fact I think your love can be increased, and I think your
work can be increased by the other. I believe they can each
increase the value of the other.

Rona Barrett: But if you had to choose one, if it was a
life and death situation, which one would you choose?

Donald Trump: I would probably choose love.

Rona Barrett: You would?

Donald Trump: I think so, yes.

Rona Barrett: Despite the fact that you spent all your
time working, achieving, creating.

Donald Trump: Well, you know, when I say love, I’m also
saying it in the positive sense that I also consider my work to
be love. So I assume that I can get away with that little
answer and we can maybe leave it at that.

Rona Barrett: Great wealth means power and influence. How
do you view it? How do you use it?

Donald Trump: I’m not sure that it does mean power and
influence. I think it means if you can live the way you want to
live without anybody looking over your shoulder necessarily.
I’m not sure that it means power. I’m not sure that it means
influence. I think it can lead to power and it can lead to
influence if you use it in a certain way, and if that’s what
you’re looking for, and if you have the right up here. But I’m
not really sure that great wealth means power or influence.

Rona Barrett: People say the most powerful people in the
world are those who want anonymity. Do you agree?

Donald Trump: I think there’s a large — I think to a
large extent that’s true, but I’m not sure that I fully agree
with it. I’m not really not sure that I fully agree with that,
Rona.

Rona Barrett: Obviously, you probably don’t otherwise you
wouldn’t be here.

Donald Trump: I don’t really care about it frankly. I
mean I never think of it one way or the other in terms of
whether I’m recognized or whether I’m not recognized. It really
doesn’t matter to me very much frankly, Rona.

Rona Barrett: How would you like to be remembered?

Donald Trump: Well, as somebody that’s contributed
something to the United States and to the City of New York, and
to the various other places that I’m going, and somebody that’s
done a little bit better than other people at what he does.

Rona Barrett: I thank you.

Donald Trump: Thank you, Rona, very much.

Rona Barrett: Thank you. Have we just about done it?

Male Voice: Just standby [indiscernible].

Donald Trump: Excellent. I have to tell you, you’re very,
very good.
[End of transcript 0:49:09]

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