Posted on 11/19/2019 6:41:42 AM PST by ChicagoConservative27
Take the resurrection of Christ, for example. How would or could a human “position of knowledge” ever validate something like that? Seems to me that all supernatural events in Scripture, to include the resurrection would have to be deemed “baloney”.
It amplifies it.
BTW, I’ve had four bonafide miracles in my life. Two of them miraculous healings as answer to prayer. The Lord is very good. I put my faith in him, and my knowledge of who he is and what he would have me do comes from prayer as well as the Bible. But as I read the bible I’m aware that I’m reading a book that is translated into my language from multiple languages in the original text, and from languages that, like english, use words that are often defined by their context. And there are LOTS of mistakes and phrases that, if a person is not intimate with the original language, can cause great confusion.
One example is Luke 14:26 - “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters— yes, even his own life— he cannot be My disciple.”
That sounds really mean. but what does the word “hate” really mean here? Well, it doesn’t mean “hate” as you or I would mean it. It literally is a “relative” word. i.e. It really means if you put any of those things ABOVE Christ.
But so many people don’t STUDY the bible. They simply READ it, which is not sufficient. Just reading it can mess a person up bigly. It’s what causes people to believe their loved ones who die without Christ will spend an eternity in unimaginable conscious torment, when the bible simply says they will die.
Frankie is the plague.
You are speaking of the correct interpretation of Scripture to include consideration of culture and context as well as awareness of the use of rhetorical devices such as hyperbole. I wholeheartedly agree, but this does not explain your contention that there is “baloney” in Scripture. Faulty interpretation/exegesis certainly produces a conclusion that is “baloney”, but that is not the fault of Scripture, which contains no “baloney”.
I should be more clear about what I mean by “baloney”. It’s anything that the writer presents as fact when we now know it isn’t. I really mean “baloney” in the same way we may say that something a doctor 200 years ago might have said and we now have enough knowledge to know it’s not true.
Using the word “baloney” was probably not a good choice of words. My apology.
See post number 40.
This Pope is a hack who is trying to spread his goofy non-traditional jesuit beliefs and trying to intimidate us into coalescing. He is not a man of God and is to much into political correctness.
I can understand that. I'm not catholic, but believe JPII was a true man of God. My late wife was a huge fan. I hope she's met him by now.
“One example is Luke 14:26 - “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters— yes, even his own life— he cannot be My disciple.”
That sounds really mean. but what does the word “hate” really mean here? Well, it doesn’t mean “hate” as you or I would mean it. It literally is a “relative” word. i.e. It really means if you put any of those things ABOVE Christ.”
Most fundamentalist Christians understand that aspect of “hate” in this passage to be just as you describe it. I think you need to find a better example to bolster your argument.
He is nearly onto something. Christian fundamentalists form a group. It is known as the body of Christ or the Church.
Most fundamentalist Christians understand that aspect of “hate” in this passage to be just as you describe it. I think you need to find a better example to bolster your argume
And, more importantly, I’m not talking about what people believe. I’m talking about what word was used by the English translators. i.e. the original greek should not be interpreted as the English word “hate”. At least, not today. Nobody today ever says I “Hate” someone or something when what they mean is that they just don’t love it as much as something else.
“Not the ones I’ve met”...
Well now don’t you just come off sounding rather high born and self inflated judging other Christians’ beliefs and thus diminishing the power of the Holy Spirit to bring each of us into the center of God’s will.
I take it then your imperiousness has decided that at least this particular passage from Luke was not full of the “baloney” you think other parts of the Bible are full of?
“Not the ones I’ve met”...
Well now don’t you just come off sounding rather high born and self inflated judging other Christians’ beliefs and thus diminishing the power of the Holy Spirit to bring each of us into the center of God’s will.
I take it then your imperiousness has decided that at least this particular passage from Luke was not full of the “baloney” you think other parts of the Bible are full of?
re: “Pope Francis Warns: ‘Fundamentalism Is a Plague’”
I don’t know why he said this, unless, an error in translation occurred, because, from what I’ve seen the scholar’s proclaim this is no where near the truth.
Better to find those areas we agree on rather than calling the differences ‘a plague’.
I already posted that the word “baloney” was a poor choice of words. And to be clear, in this case I’m not saying the bible is baloney. I’m saying that every English translation is also, in a very real sense, an “interpretation”.
About ten years ago I asked a kid studying ancient languages which English translation of the bible is the best. They said they are all flawed, and the only real way to “fully” understand the bible is to “fully” understand the language in which each book was written. A bible scholar also said that it is best that you also understand the culture in which it was written.
Really, for me, the biggest problem I have is not with what is in the bible, but how people interpret it for themself and then attack you if you disagree with them.
I remember discussing a particular principle where one elder and I disagreed on a subject. We both used scripture to support our position, and after only one or two back-and-forths, he held up his big KJV bible and said, red faced, “I believe what the word of God says!” To which I replied, “So do i. Where we differ is on interpretation.”
That is my position to this day. And my beliefs have changed as I am exposed to different interpretations as well as teaching that link old and new testiment passages.
One thing I really do find interesting is that the Septuagint and Masoretic text, both versions of the OT, do not precisely match either in content or in books included, and the Septuagint (greek) is what is often quoted, word for word, by the writers of the new testament. And yet, our English bibles are based on the Masoretic text. There is a quote in the book of “Wisdom” in the Septuagint that accurately prophesies the death of Christ and is even quoted in the New Testament, yet it is not part of our bibles. Why is that?
Link please?
Meant to ask for a Link to the “Book of Wisom/NT Death of Christ predicted” link
Link please?
I’d use duckduckgo or bing for that. I taught a class on this but all my notes and my powerpoint are on another computer.
This is from my powerpoint:
Let us lie in ambush for the righteous man, because he is useless to us and opposes our deeds; he denounces us for our sins against the law and accuses us of sins against our upbringing. He claims to have knowledge of God, and he calls himself a child of the Lord. He has become for us as a refutation of our purposes; even seeing him is a burden to us, because his life is unlike that of others; for his paths go in a different direction. We are considered by him as a hybrid, and he avoids our ways as something immoral.
He considers the last things of the righteous as blessed and pretends that God is his Father. Let us see if his words are true, and let us put these last things to the test at the end of his life. For if the righteous man is a son of God, He will help him, and deliver him from the hand of those who oppose him.
Let us test him with insult and torture that we may know his gentleness and test his patient endurance. Let us condemn him to a shameful death, for there shall be a visitation because of his words. -— Wisdom 2:12-22 (RSVA)
And the NT:
Likewise the chief priests also, mocking with the scribes and elders, said, “He saved others; Himself He cannot save. If He is the King of Israel, let Him now come down from the cross, and we will believe Him. He trusted in God; let Him deliver Him now if He will have Him; for He said, ‘I am the Son of God.’ ”
Matthew 27:41-43 (NKJV)
This is another from my powerpoint:
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. - Jude 1:14-15
Behold, he comes with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon them, and destroy the wicked, and reprove all the carnal for everything which the sinful and ungodly have done, and committed against him. 1 Enoch 2:1-2
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