Posted on 06/04/2020 7:33:10 AM PDT by caww
But I do not identify with the Vatican Roman Catholic Institutional Church or it's Leadership and often disagree with their Doctrines, Practices and Ritualistic beliefs, nor their necessity for a Priesthood which is 'central' to their worship and belief system.
We are not of the world as believers so we do endeavor to keep our focus on Jesus Christ and what He reveals to us in His Word which is our compass through our time here... as too we rely on His Spirit within us to guide us and keep our path straight as we walk with Him.....
Jesus told us what we see happening within the churches would come...."The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons......a willful falling away...so we are not surprised.
Your comment: “But I do not identify with the Vatican Roman Catholic Institutional Church or it’s Leadership and often disagree with their Doctrines, Practices and Ritualistic beliefs, nor their necessity for a Priesthood which is ‘central’ to their worship and belief system.”
Jesus Christ founded the visible authoritative Catholic Church for the Body of Christ. Other christian churches accept some of the teachings (Truth) of Jesus and reject some teachings (heresies).
The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite heresies and constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. It must be more than a merely human organization, especially considering that its human members— even some of its leaders—have been unwise, corrupt, or prone to heresy.
The Lord gave us His Body and Blood in the Sacrament of the Eucharist for our salvation. We need priests to act as God’s representative to offer the Mass and consecrate the Eucharist,
Jesus promised, “I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18). This means that his Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from him. His Church will survive until his return.
Yes, many will fall away from Christ and His Church, and the Body of Christ will pray and work for their return to the Truth of Jesus before they die.
I hope that you seek all of God’s Truth.
I’ve heard and read all that you’ve written many times before. So we will have to disagree with our views of the Catholic Church, who really has the authority in the Catholic Church, and the practice of mass and the Eucharist, and other differrences than what I believe Gods word and history tells us.
I understand that you have different views of the Catholic Church concerning its authority, the Mass, the Eucharist and other matters.
I am not trying to argue, but I believe each person should be able to support their view based on what Jesus taught us because we want to accept God’s Truth and not just the opinion of others.
I would encourage you to share your view on any issue and would be glad to engage in a non threatening discussion.
save for later
I have shared my views many times in the past on the religeous threads. But since then I generally stay away from Catholic debates and prefer not engaging.
I’m confident in my beliefs for they are grounded in God’s Word and Years of scripture study and the guidence of His Holy Spirit who never fails us when we seek His Truth.....since He is the author He is, with certainty, beyond able to teach and reveal to us what He desires.
Thank you and may you also be able to reach all the riches of full assurance of understanding and the knowledge of God’s mystery, which is Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
You can rest assured, that I don’t exactly have any warm fuzzy feelings for them either. The feeling is pretty much mutual.
You comment: “Catholicism is the best way to worship Our Lord, but I don’t think I can continue to support the RCCh.”
Jesus taught us to love our enemy (sinner), but not the sin.
I presume your comment meant financial support, so if we do not financially support the Catholic Church, how will we be able to participate in the Mass, Eucharist, Confession, etc?
I believe that we need to pray and by our actions follow Jesus and support His Church (even with all the human weakness). We should make the Catholic Church stronger as the Body of Christ becomes holier and not abandon our church or the teachings of Jesus.
“I presume your comment meant financial support, so if we do not financially support the Catholic Church, how will we be able to participate in the Mass, Eucharist, Confession, etc?”
What makes you think the RCCh is providing the sacraments? There are three elements to a sacrament: form, matter, and intent. I do not trust the heretics to provide these, especially intent.
For that matter, what makes you think the RCCh, with Frankie the Commie at its head, still is the Catholic Church? They have highjacked the earthly artifacts of the Church and laid them at Satan’s feet. That is no longer the Catholic Church.
The remnant, those who remain faithful to Our Lord, are the Catholic Church. We may have next to no church buildings, next to no faithful priests, next to no money, but so long as we have faith, we are authentically Catholic. Frankie and his minions are Catholic in no way. They belong to Satan, and they’re trying to sell the rest of us out.
Do you think Our Lord wants us to follow Frankie into a hell of sodomy, women priests, divorce, fornication, and everything else that pleases their master?
“I believe that we need to pray and by our actions follow Jesus and support His Church”
His Church has moved. It has been expelled from all the structures and organizations that used to be Catholic.
Do you want to follow Jesus and support His Church? Well, then, you find a few faithful Catholics and begin meeting in your homes like the early Christians did, and by your deeds show yourselves to be Catholic.
Frankie, by his deeds, reveals himself to be a servant of Satan.
“We should make the Catholic Church stronger as the Body of Christ becomes holier and not abandon our church or the teachings of Jesus.”
You are not abandoning your church; it has been ripped away from you by the workers of evil. The Church remains only in the hearts of the faithful, and the faithful must keep it alive until the heretics can be defeated.
I really doubt that giving money to the heretics pleases Our Lord.
Your comment: “What makes you think the RCCh is providing the sacraments? There are three elements to a sacrament: form, matter, and intent. I do not trust the heretics to provide these, especially intent.”
Christ promised that he would remain with his Church for all times, and part of this guarantee was the promise that Christ would not allow the Church, his visible sign and instrument of salvation, to promulgate invalid rites for the sacraments—particularly the Eucharist, the “source and summit of Christian life.”
Over the centuries, there have always been heretics and sinners in leadership of the church. While I understand some Cardinals have expressed concern there there is a schism brewing that could split the Catholic Church, there are many Priests and Bishops that have remained true to the Church and Christ and many lay people that have remained faithful. If Christ gave His word to stand by the Church, then we must stand by His Church. Sometimes events test us to determine if we will remain faithful to Christ.
“For that matter, what makes you think the RCCh, with Frankie the Commie at its head, still is the Catholic Church? They have highjacked the earthly artifacts of the Church and laid them at Satan’s feet. That is no longer the Catholic Church.”
I understand your concern, but the church has faced many heresies and corruption, the Catholic Church as a whole has remained true to Christ. As far as I know, the current Pope has not changed any church teachings, although he has implied that he may try in the future. We have had bad popes in the past and the church survived. The faithful needs to stay with Christ and His church. and not fall away.
“The remnant, those who remain faithful to Our Lord, are the Catholic Church. We may have next to no church buildings, next to no faithful priests, next to no money, but so long as we have faith, we are authentically Catholic. Frankie and his minions are Catholic in no way. They belong to Satan, and they’re trying to sell the rest of us out.”
There are many, if not a majority of priests that are good and following Christ. It is up to Jesus to judge Pope Francis and others on their death. Our job is to condemn the sins, and to stay faithful to the Catholic faith and Christ’s church. Perhaps this a challenge to the faithful to see if they will endure to the end or leave the church as many have through the centuries.
“Do you think Our Lord wants us to follow Frankie into a hell of sodomy, women priests, divorce, fornication, and everything else that pleases their master?” No. The Body of Christ needs to stand for Christ’s Truth and His visible Church.
“I believe that we need to pray and by our actions follow Jesus and support His Church”
“His Church has moved. It has been expelled from all the structures and organizations that used to be Catholic.”
I disagree. There are many good parishes and Bishops. The Catholic Church is still strong even with many sinners and some bad leadership.
“Do you want to follow Jesus and support His Church? Well, then, you find a few faithful Catholics and begin meeting in your homes like the early Christians did, and by your deeds show yourselves to be Catholic.”
Don’t abandon Christ’s Catholic Church or Christ.
“Frankie, by his deeds, reveals himself to be a servant of Satan.
You are not abandoning your church; it has been ripped away from you by the workers of evil. The Church remains only in the hearts of the faithful, and the faithful must keep it alive until the heretics can be defeated.”
“I really doubt that giving money to the heretics pleases Our Lord.”
You are assuming that all are heretics. The Catholic Church is facing serious issues, but it has not failed. We need to trust in Jesus Christ as He gave us His Word.
“There are many, if not a majority of priests that are good and following Christ.”
I haven’t met one in over a decade. One clown pretending to be a priest practically danced a jig in the sacristy when Pope Benedict resigned, elated that now the heresy could proceed apace.
“You are assuming that all are heretics.”
Not assuming, and not all. The only faithful, doctrinally orthodox priest I have encountered since 2006 was persecuted by his bishop and rewarded for his faith with a posting to a tiny, remote parish in the back woods of Idaho.
That bishop, btw, was one of the worst of those who shielded sodomite priests.
I plan, when this corona virus scam blows away, to try and get an appointment with Msgr. Pope, if he is willing to give me an hour. That will mean driving from the Rockies to the Atlantic, but I wasn’t doing anything else anyway.
By showing up for Mass on Sunday (or the evening before), you are fulfilling your obligation. If the celebrant fails to fulfill his obligation of celebrating the Mass in a licit manner, that is his responsibility, not yours. You do not have to go to extra lengths, such attending an additional Mass, because he is derelict in his duty.
Inherently linked to the question of the changes is the issue of the Church’s indefectibility. Christ promised that he would remain with his Church for all times, and part of this guarantee was the promise that Christ would not allow the Church, his visible sign and instrument of salvation, to promulgate invalid rites for the sacraments—particularly the Eucharist, the “source and summit of Christian life.” That the Church has the authority to proclaim rites and is preserved from proclaiming defective rites is an underlying presumption of Leo XIII’s declaration on the invalidity of Anglican orders. He speaks of using rites not approved by the Church (cf. Apostolicae Curae 33), thereby implying that the Church does have the authority to modify and approve rites.
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/what-constitutes-valid-consecration
When the Mass is presented as something casual, entertaining, or improvisational, the whole point of it disappears. If the priest conducts himself as if Christ were not truly present in the Eucharist, why should the lay people in his parish think the Eucharist means anything? Why should they bother to go to Mass at all? Although census figures report that the Church in America is growing, only twenty-five percent of Americans who call themselves Catholic attend Mass regularly (down from seventy percent before the liturgical reforms following Vatican II). Worse, close to two-thirds of American Catholics say they don’t believe in the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist—and many of those are among the twenty-five percent who still attend Mass.
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-ten-most-common-liturgical-abuses
I hope you have a chance to meet with Msgr. Pope and that you find a great parish. Did you get a chance to read ARch Vigano’s letter to President Trump. There are children of light and children of darkness.
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