Posted on 08/10/2020 5:58:05 PM PDT by ebb tide
Well, I was mainly speaking more generally about why it’s important to be well informed in order to be more convincing to others.
But to your original statement, it was verifiably incorrect to state that they “need aborted babies” to develop vaccines. They don’t. Every vaccine except Hepatitis A and Rubella has an ethically developed (zero use of fetal stem cells) alternative approved by the FDA. The alternatives for Hep A and Rubella are only approved for use in Japan. Hopefully that changes at some point soon. Informed consumers flocking to the ethical alternatives would shift the marketplace so that future vaccines are only ever developed with ethically derived cell lines (i.e. NOT fetal stem cells from abortions).
One of the arguments I’ve seen thrown about from some anti-vaxxers in the past is that you shouldn’t get vaccinated because the vaccines are made with aborted baby parts. Which is just tragically wrong in so many ways.
A better argument (if you’re truly coming from a place of wanting to discourage the use of products benefiting from fetal stem cells) is to state that the R&D process for many vaccines uses fetal stem cells derived from voluntary abortions and that one should seek the specific vaccine brands which did NOT use those immoral and unethical methods. If one really wants to be helpful, providing a link to a list of ethical alternatives can really make things easy for a parent who’s trying to do the right thing for their child from both a medical standpoint and from a moral and ethical standpoint.
Why is that a stronger argument? It’s all factually accurate. There’s no one who can come along and state why you’re wrong because there’s nothing incorrect. Your argument stands on the facts.
What is R and D?
How many times are you planning to mash the reply button on the exact same post, quote the exact same line out of context, and make the exact same strawman argument? Are you trying to win a contest or something? I’m trying to have a civil discussion with you. Can we just do that?
So, it’s NOT just the flu, bro?
LOL.
Or, if it never goes away...it mutates into a slow grinding nightmare.
Research and development. When you’re looking to develop a new drug or a vaccine, you need a couple things. One is you need to take the small sample of the pathogen (e.g. virus) you’ve been provided and make many copies of it. The way you do that is to give it cells it can infect so it can make copies the way it normally does. Once you have many copies of it (we’re talking billions of copies), you can take some and experiment on them to see how it reacts to different things.
The other thing you need to do is see how different compounds/drugs/etc. alter its behavior. For instance, if you think zinc might block viral replication inside human cells, you can take some stem cells, add some zinc to the environment, then add the virus and see how its replication is actually impacted. This avoids the issue of a living human being becoming infected, sick, and possibly dying from the experimentation and allows you lots of freedom to experiment with drugs or compounds that might otherwise be dangerous inside a living human being.
The reason fetal stem cells are so often used is that they replicate extremely quickly, reliably, and for a very, very long time. If you took cells from an adult human being, they’re specialized cells (which can behave differently), they replicate far fewer times (essentially they die out quickly), and it takes a lot longer to build up a large supply of them. There are other alternatives involving certain types of animal cells or other cell types that don’t come from an aborted fetus. Each presents its own set of challenges, but typically you CAN use one or more ethically derived cell lines to do your research, understanding there are some caveats to each. Or you can choose to use fetal stem cells and do everything faster and cheaper, but also with the moral and ethical issues attached to those.
I hope that’s helpful.
Yes. Like the HIV vaccine everyone is talking about.
There has never been a successful corona virus vaccine. Just ask the Spanish Flu, H1N1.
Really? Our GDP and political mayhem right now are a direct result. Not all war needs to kill billions.
The same Chinese lab Dr. Fauci used US taxpayer's dollars to fund research forbidden by law in the United States?The government wants to disarm us after 244 yrs 'cuz they plan to do things we would shoot them for!
At no point in history has any government ever wanted its people to be defenseless for any good reason ~ nully's son
Nut-job Conspiracy Theory Ping!
To get onto The Nut-job Conspiracy Theory Ping List you must threaten to report me to the Mods if I don't add you to the list...
This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone paying attention...Bring Out Your Dead
Post to me or FReep mail to be on/off the Bring Out Your Dead ping list.
The purpose of the “Bring Out Your Dead” ping list (formerly the “Ebola” ping list) is very early warning of emerging pandemics, as such it has a high false positive rate.
The false positive rate was 100%.
At some point we may well have a high mortality pandemic, and likely as not the “Bring Out Your Dead” threads will miss the beginning entirely.
*sigh* Such is life, and death...
If a quarantine saves just one child's or one old fart’s life, it's worth it.
Trump is also the guy who said, “Everyone who NEEDS to be tested has been tested” on March 21st. That guy?
Based on how well they have done on other coronavirus vaccines, look for something about 50-60% effective. Not horrible. But if you were visiting someone in a nursing home...forget it. They will never open up again.
It doesn't matter whether I'm willing to put money on it; every one of us already has. The vaccine is the key to unlocking the economy. President Trump understands this. It's why he's been talking about a vaccine for months. It's why he's pushed billions of Federal taxpayer dollars into funding vaccine development. It's why he's been streamlining the process with the FDA to get the do-nothing bureaucrats out of the way so all the safety and efficacy testing can continue unimpeded.
"Maybe thie media-hoax miracle vaccine will be revealed on November 4th by President Joe Biden."
Are you claiming President Trump is a con man who's lying to us about a vaccine being available very soon? https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/03/trump-says-us-may-have-coronavirus-vaccine-far-in-advance-of-end-of-the-year.html
"By the way, where's that ebola vaccine?"
Right here, FRiend. Approved by the FDA last December. What else ya got?
Give the rest of the world threat fatigue, and when we are at the point where we simply will NOT buckle under and wear masks and socially distance anymore, release the Kragen!
No, I'm claiming you and facsist Fauci are con men.
I still consider the full name of this malady to be the Xi Jinping Chinese Communist Party Virus and Flu.
That sentence stood out to me also, as a red flag to bad journalism, bad science and narrative building.
It’s not like China has a monopoly on virologists or geneticists. It may indicate guilt based shiftiness in trying to hide origins but it’s not going to have the claimed effect of “ensuring that no completely effective vaccine will ever be developed by the West.”
My opinion, it’s a bio-weapon and it is doing exactly what it was designed to do.
Let's cut the PC crap about "fetal stem cells" and call it like it is:
The cells of a baby girl, murdered by her mother and her physician, are being used for R&D. Nothing more than cannibalism.
There's no HIV vaccine because the human immune system doesn't recognize it as a foreign pathogen. All a vaccine does is show the immune system what the pathogen looks like. If the immune system looks at it and says "yeah? so what?", then you don't get immunity. Add to that the fact that there are multiple strains of HIV and all of them rapidly mutate because it has a very unstable genome and that's why there isn't yet a vaccine.
"There has never been a successful corona virus vaccine."
There are 7 coronaviruses known to infect humans. 4 of them cause mild respiratory symptoms and are 4 of the over 200 viruses known to cause what we collectively refer to as the "common cold". There's no vaccine because developing a vaccine for over 200 different viruses would cost a ludicrous amount of money and nobody's paying $20,000 for a cold vaccine.
The other three coronaviruses known to infect humans are SARS-CoV-1 (SARS 2003), MERS-CoV (MERS 2012), and SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19). Vaccine candidates were developed for SARS 2003 and MERS 2012. Those vaccine candidates made it through phase 1 and phase 2 human clinical trials. Phase 3 trials are massive - involving tens of thousands of paid volunteers - and extremely expensive. By the time we got to phase 3 trials, both SARS 2003 and MERS 2012 had burned out. No patients left means nobody wants a vaccine, which means no market, which means no one funded phase 3 trials.
When SARS-CoV-2 was discovered and its genome mapped, the similarities to SARS-CoV-1 meant that several groups just took the existing SARS-CoV-1 vaccine candidates off the shelf, tweaked them to work with SARS-CoV-2, and put them back into phase 1 and phase 2 clinical trials. That's several (actually I think 12) of the current vaccine candidates for SARS-CoV-2. Now we have multiple vaccine candidates in phase 3 trials, fully funded and being mass produced in parallel so that as soon as they get FDA approval, they can be shipped to your doctor or local pharmacy.
"Just ask the Spanish Flu, H1N1."
Influenza is not a coronavirus. Human beings are more closely related to snails than Influenza is to SARS-CoV-2. But since you asked, the 2009 H1N1 vaccine protects against the 1918 Spanish flu. source
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