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Pistols & Shotgun Against Wyoming Grizzly, October 19, 2010 FOIA
AmmoLand ^ | February 15, 2022 | Dean Weingarten

Posted on 02/17/2022 3:31:40 AM PST by marktwain

This is another in a series of self-defense against bear events uncovered in a Freedom of Information Act request done by AmmoLand. It seems they have not been published before.

On October 18, 2010, an elk hunter was successful in collecting a bull elk at the head of the North Crandall Creek drainage in Wyoming. It was late in the day, so they field-dressed the elk, moved the gut pile about 50 yards away, and left the elk to be retrieved the next day, with horses.

On October 19, 2010, three men were on their way to retrieve the elk. Because the identities of the three have been redacted, they will be referred to as Guide, Wrangler, and Hunter. After increasingly difficult travel, they had to leave their horses because of the downed timber and steep terrain. They ate a sandwich and glassed for bears. They continued on, over very steep terrain.

The guide had a holstered .44 magnum. Wrangler had a 12 gauge pump shotgun, loaded with three rounds of 7 1/2 birdshot and a round of low recoil 00 buckshot. The hunter had a holstered .45 semi-auto pistol.

The guide told Wrangler to make sure a round was chambered in the shotgun. He said they needed to go slow.

The three men carefully approached the kill site, looking for bears. At about 200 yards from the kill site, they saw a florescent orange hat one of the hunters had hung in a tree to mark the site. Hunter used binoculars to look for bears. He did not see any. After the three men had traversed about half the distance to the kill site, traveling upslope, a grizzly bear appeared and charged Wrangler. Wrangler had forgotten to put a round in the chamber of the shotgun.

Guide yelled for Wrangler to shoot a warning

(Excerpt) Read more at ammoland.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: Wyoming
KEYWORDS: banglist; bearattack; pistol; wy
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The .44 magnum and the shotgun were fired almost simultaneously.
1 posted on 02/17/2022 3:31:40 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain

“Guide yelled for Wrangler to shoot a warning shot. In the excitement, Wrangler could not chamber a round.”

This applies to human defense as well - having an empty chamber is a stupid idea in a modern weapon intended for self defense, be it against bear or marauding humanoids. Operator failure under stress is the main problem with a pump gun and is why military and police who fight with shotguns for real have all been moving to autoloading shotguns.


2 posted on 02/17/2022 3:39:00 AM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: marktwain

bkmk


3 posted on 02/17/2022 3:58:50 AM PST by sauropod (Whom the gods would destroy they first make mad. Life is risk, your highness.)
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To: Spktyr

Unclear as to why when elk hunting no one took the rifle that was used. If you can pack a shotgun you can pack a rifle, elk quarter be damned.


4 posted on 02/17/2022 4:26:57 AM PST by 03A3 (If we can defund the police, we sure as hell can defund the FBI)
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To: 03A3

They were done hunting and were retrieving game.

Having a rifle would not have made any difference what so ever.


5 posted on 02/17/2022 4:41:37 AM PST by riverrunner
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To: Spktyr

There’s a whole collection of videos of people dying while trying to chamber a round. Quite sad.


6 posted on 02/17/2022 5:06:16 AM PST by SJSAMPLE
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To: SJSAMPLE

I think I may have seen it - empty chambers had their place in ancient times when all people had were revolvers without drop safety mechanisms, but it’s been well more than a century since that was the case.

Let’s not get into the related stupidity that racking a shell into the empty chamber of a shotgun will cause an assailant to flee, because it doesn’t.


7 posted on 02/17/2022 5:29:15 AM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: marktwain
Now you try to scare them and the come at you.”

Gotta be from stupid kommiefornians moving into the area and feeding the sweet little furballs.

8 posted on 02/17/2022 5:39:27 AM PST by LouAvul (The liberal's mantra: " I don't understand why this has to be so hard.")
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To: marktwain
I've never hunted elk in griz infested country. But, I'd have a different arsenal.

One of us would have had a 45-70 Marlin Guide gun, chambered and ready to fire.

Another of us would have had an over/under, both chambers loaded with high velocity slugs.

The third would have been carrying a Ruger Redhawk 44 mag (I own two) loaded with hard cast bullets.

I'm not a fan of warning shots, but then, I don't hunt in griz infested woods.

9 posted on 02/17/2022 5:44:26 AM PST by LouAvul (The liberal's mantra: " I don't understand why this has to be so hard.")
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To: LouAvul

44 mags are ok. but to be sure take a 454 Casull. the one with the 2 inch barrel is a kick


10 posted on 02/17/2022 6:05:47 AM PST by cb
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To: cb
In my scenario the handgun would never have come into play. The shotgun slugs and 45-70 would be chief.

But, sure, the 454, if you wish.

11 posted on 02/17/2022 6:29:52 AM PST by LouAvul (The liberal's mantra: " I don't understand why this has to be so hard.")
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To: marktwain

I visited with a wildlife biologist who is tasked with tagging and recording every kind of critter.

He admitted to a heightened level of excitement when being charged by a grizzly on the end of a cable snare.


12 posted on 02/17/2022 6:38:37 AM PST by lurk (u)
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To: LouAvul

Your choices have merit, especially the.45-70 & the .44 Mag. My shotgun choice would be a short-barrel 12ga. autoloader to reduce recoil from the heavy slug & 00-buck rounds I would load in an alternating sequence. Birdshot has no place in a self-defense scenario, IMO. This scenario also requires all to have bear spray, too.


13 posted on 02/17/2022 6:44:29 AM PST by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't. )
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To: cb

Someone let me fire his 454 some years ago. 2” barrel like yours. He loaded three rounds and gave it to me. I shot 2 and gave it back, my hands were shaking so much I dare not fire the third. Too much gun for me, that thing is a BEAST!😬


14 posted on 02/17/2022 6:47:08 AM PST by telescope115 (Proud member of the ANTIFAuci movement. )
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To: Spktyr
Operator failure under stress is the main problem with a pump gun and is why military and police who fight with shotguns for real have all been moving to autoloading shotguns.

How would an autoloading shotgun have helped in this situation? If I'm reading the article right, the problem was the inability to manually load the initial load into the chamber. That process has to be done manually whether the shotgun is a pump or an autoloader. The problem here was the chamber wasn't loaded before it became a stressful situation.

15 posted on 02/17/2022 6:51:41 AM PST by CommerceComet ("You know why there's a Second Amendment? In case, the government forgets the first." Rush Limbaugh )
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To: CommerceComet

Autoloaders generally don’t have a bolt release tab that you have to hit before chambering a round from a closed bolt and empty chamber.


16 posted on 02/17/2022 6:59:28 AM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

Even though I trust the transfer bar safety in my Uberti El Patron SA revolver, I still load them with an empty chamber. Just in case.


17 posted on 02/17/2022 7:09:27 AM PST by SJSAMPLE
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To: SJSAMPLE

That’s not a modern weapon, though - it’s a modified replica of an ancient design. :P


18 posted on 02/17/2022 7:11:36 AM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: marktwain

I is so refreshing to read a well written article these days.


19 posted on 02/17/2022 7:34:43 AM PST by super7man (Madam Defarge, knitting, knitting, always knitting.)
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To: Spktyr
Let’s not get into the related stupidity that racking a shell into the empty chamber of a shotgun will cause an assailant to flee, because it doesn’t.

Only at the dollar store.

20 posted on 02/17/2022 8:01:24 AM PST by Fightin Whitey
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