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To: rlmorel
When individualistic "conservatives", i.e. libertarians refer to groups they like to use the word "collective" to tar paleocons and populist conservatives as closet marxists.

We conservatives prefer to use the word "community" with all of its positive and life-affirming connotations.

The first Europeans to establish permanent footholds in America did so as communities, e.g. the Spanish missionaries, the various French, English and Dutch religious colonies. There were no John Galts.

The history of America is its rise as Ameeicans worked together and its fall as the worship of freedom for freedom's sake and vapid indivualism led to the atomization of the population and the rise of the centralized state to fill the gaps left by broken marriages, emptied churches, and hollowed out service organizations.

14 posted on 02/18/2022 11:32:01 PM PST by who_would_fardels_bear (This is not a tagline.)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

That is an important distinction you make. There is indeed a difference between a “collective” and a “community”.

Conservatives want community, but don’t want a collective.

Leftists want a collective, but don’t want a community.

And there is a difference between “individualism” and “vapid individualism” in my opinion. Individualism can be an integral part and dovetail quite naturally with “Community”. (A “community” can appreciate and respect an individual)

A “Collective” cannot abide an individual. In a “Collective”, the individual must be eliminated.

I do differ your negative connotation of freedom by characterizing the desire for freedom as “the worship of freedom for freedom’s sake”.

I do agree with your assessment of “vapid individualism” as being a large component of what is wrong with America. “Vapid Individualism” has indeed allowed the state to fill in those gaps left when there is no community.

Individualism without Community leads to tyrannical collectivism.

Individualism with Community is compatible and vital to Liberty and Freedom.


15 posted on 02/19/2022 6:32:01 AM PST by rlmorel (The concept of a "cashless society" is simply a vector for the exercise of tyranny.)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
"...There were no John Galts..."

There was no need for a John Galt at that time.

16 posted on 02/19/2022 6:33:31 AM PST by rlmorel (The concept of a "cashless society" is simply a vector for the exercise of tyranny.)
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