Posted on 05/17/2022 7:53:39 AM PDT by Kaslin
“Dying is not compassionate...”
I think that it is (the manner of dying usually isn’t though!). God wanted us (starting with Adam and Eve) to live in His presence in the Garden of Eden. He walked and talked with Adam and Eve. But He also gave them free will.
And of course they used it. And while Satan was correct when he said “See - you didn’t die!”, Adam and Eve WOULD die some day as was promised by God.
And by the grace of God they (and us) would die. They wouldn’t have to live for eternity on the now sin-filled earth and separated from God.
“He understood that before the universe existed there could be no ideas or mathematics.”
Well, he supposed that. He wasn’t there before the universe was created, and didn’t claim to have any contact with any being who was, so he didn’t have any actual knowledge to back up that supposition.
“He also understood that after the universe died (if that happened) there could be no ideas or mathematics.”
Another supposition.
“Those were valid questions in his opinion.”
I can see why he would think they were valid, but if we don’t accept his suppositions, then there is no reason to think they actually are valid.
“I would be interested in your attempt to answer Plato’s questions.”
I see no need to answer questions based on his suppositions that were made without necessity and in absence of evidence. In fact, I think there are some fundamental errors at the very basis of those suppositions, so attempting to answer them in this context would be an exercise in futility and prone to just compound his errors with further ones.
“Q. Where is God; A. God is everywhere. I take it that there can be no separation between God and the Universe, his creation”
You’ve immediately made an assumption there that does not follow from the preceding statement. God can be everywhere in the universe, AND also be outside the universe. The fact that he is omnipresent in this creation does not require that he not be present anywhere else. In fact, the very notion that the universe is His creation presupposes that God preexists the creation, or He could not be said to have created it. Thus, God must have existed outside the creation before it existed, and absent any evidence to believe that He has since limited himself to only existing inside this creation, there is no valid reason to suppose that is the case.
“It is mathematics, and science, which are separable, abstract concepts, apart from the universe.”
If God created mathematics and science, and you believe that God and the universe are not separable, then it seems a contradiction to believe that some of his creations are separable when God himself is not.
’ Any attempt at a scientific or mathematical explanation for that leads to “It’s turtles all the way down.” ‘
No, I disagree with that. The honest scientific explanation is “that is outside the observable universe, so science cannot tell us anything about the matter”, or more simply put “we don’t know”. Many scientists don’t like to give that kind of answer, but that is the proper scientific answer to this type of question. The answer lies beyond the boundaries of scientific inquiry, so if you wish to find it, you must seek answers through some other field of knowledge rather than science, if you are to find them at all.
“This is why I believe that God must be the universe, eternal, without cause, without beginning or end.”
But you’ve already acknowledged the universe does have a beginning, with the Big Bang. So God can’t be eternal if he is the universe, since the universe has a beginning.
My thoughts:
• God is a aspect of the universe, incorporeal and unbounded by space and time.
• The creation story is not literal (”seven days”) but is meant to relate a vision of the universe to a simple people.
• The Big Bang is part of an unimaginably long cycle; explosion, dispersal, regathering, explosion.
• Humankind is not equipped to understand the Being of God, but may perceive His nature.
• God’s love is like a gravitational force, except that it does not compel, it summons.
• God’s presence is as near as your willingness to perceive it.
If you want to talk about gods that need to be created,
Go ahead talk. There may be some with interest.
I recall God talking about His creations. What was said in scripture about His creation?
Definition of hubris : exaggerated pride or self-confidence
EXACTLY!
My thoughts:
• God is a aspect of the universe, incorporeal and unbounded by space and time.
***That is because God CREATED the universe. He exists outside of it.
• The creation story is not literal (”seven days”) but is meant to relate a vision of the universe to a simple people.
***It is as literal as God chose to be, given the timegap of language that would take place for 3500 years before mankind could even comprehend the vastness of what is out there.
• The Big Bang is part of an unimaginably long cycle; explosion, dispersal, regathering,
***There is very little evidence of this “cycle”. In fact, we are continuing to expand at an accelerating rate.
explosion.
• Humankind is not equipped to understand the Being of God, but may perceive His nature.
***Standard “we know more than we used to” pablum.
• God’s presence is as near as your willingness to perceive it.
*** Luke 14:15 When one of those who reclined at table with him heard these things, he said to him, “Blessed is everyone who will eat bread in the kingdom of God!”
And we know this HOW?
No; I don't.
But you may feel free to do so; as there WILL be some with interest.
26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”[a]
2 And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God.[b] 2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling. 4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.
I wonder who blurted this out?
When one of those who reclined at table ...
Jeremiah 9:23-24
23 this is what the lord says: “let not the wise man boast in his wisdom, nor the strong man in his strength, nor the wealthy man in his riches. 24 but let him who boasts boast in this, that he understands and knows me, that i am the lord, who exercises loving devotion, justice and righteousness on the earth— for i delight in these things,” …
It is an example of someone who tried to blunt Jesus’s message.
Just yesterday I was marveling at what a tiny little seed such as a tomato seed or acorn, once planted in soil and watered, will eventually grow into. That’s true for every species of plant. It sure isn’t accidental........
They are such powerful little chemical factories!
Using raw materials of just air and dirt, they create all kinds of wonderous things we humans need to survive.
Why aren’t we designed to eat the dirt ourselves and avoid the middlemen of vegetables?
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