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Why US-NATO can’t let Russia win
Asia Times ^

Posted on 06/28/2022 4:54:59 AM PDT by FarCenter

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To: Alberta's Child

After VE Day the US was totally engaged in demobilization in Europe and sending troops either home or to the Pacific, depending on how many “points” they had accumulated. NATO was created at the urgent behest of western Europe, prostrate and facing a hundred divisions of the Red Amy at their Eastern doorstep. I doubt they wanted to pacify themselves.


21 posted on 06/28/2022 5:41:04 AM PDT by hinckley buzzard ( Resist the narrative.)
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To: Alberta's Child
NATO was never designed to be an “alliance” in the traditional sense. It was established to give the U.S. a mechanism for pacifying Western Europe; not to protect it from the Soviet Union.

I'm not sure if this is true. I would need to see historical evidence claiming this was the intent. NATO's own 1949 charter states, "The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all." Most historians today agree that the U.S. and Western Europe formed NATO as a collective defense against the Soviet Union. However, Russia did somewhat appreciate NATO in the 1950s because it kept Germany disarmed.

Someone on this forum asked what would George Washington and John Adams do? They would probably wean Europe from U.S. military dependency and encourage Germany to rearm and take the lead in continental defense. I think at this point, Germany is the only country in Europe capable of containing Russia.

22 posted on 06/28/2022 5:57:43 AM PDT by Right_Wing_Madman
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
#19: "The billionaire globalist psychopaths and the Uniparty criminal complex can't let Russia win."

Bingo.

The only time we have had any semblance of peace since WWII has been under Republican presidents. The Democrats get us into wars, and the good Republicans try to extricate us from them.

Everyone is familiar with President Eisenhower's warning. The term hadn't been invented yet, but in different words, President Eisenhower warned us of the Deep State.

America has no business getting involved with this Slavic slugfest. Not our circus, not our monkeys. We have too many problems at home which require our full attention. In my lifetime, clearly the Democrats have been the War Party.

Isn't it laughable that all the peaceniks have disappeared? Where are the once ubiquitous shaggy protesters demanding peace? Where have they all gone?

23 posted on 06/28/2022 5:58:07 AM PDT by Governor Dinwiddie (LORD, grant thy people grace to withstand the temptations of the world, the flesh, and the devil.)
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To: BobL
Hard to argue with that, considering what the West has morphed into. Someone noted (somewhere, doubt I can find it now) that no other than Fidel Castro said that the next time Fascism arises it will be under the cover of ‘democracy’.

I believe it was Huey Long who said of Fascism coming to the United States of America: “Of course we’ll have it. We’ll have it under the guise of anti-fascism.”

The Kingfish got that one right.

24 posted on 06/28/2022 6:07:12 AM PDT by niteowl77 (Democrats suck, Quisling Republicans blow... and by the way, FJB.)
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To: Telepathic Intruder
Not enough reason to explain why we’re in this war.

Money. There's money to be made in war. Plus de-population of peoples and resources. The globalists elite think they are immune.

25 posted on 06/28/2022 6:10:32 AM PDT by BipolarBob (Where is Biden leading us and what's with the hand basket?)
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To: FarCenter

If Russia loses, the WEF, DC, London, NATO, the EU, Uke fascism, globohomo, in other words, the most dangerous enemies of the average American are strengthened.


26 posted on 06/28/2022 6:15:30 AM PDT by DesertRhino (Dogs are called man's best friend. Moslems hate dogs. Add it up..)
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To: dfwgator

Define losing.


27 posted on 06/28/2022 6:24:09 AM PDT by kabar
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To: FarCenter

Conclusion:

US Deep State & Globalists have created an untenable position.

Gee: Go figure.

Hey CINOs: Nice going. /s


28 posted on 06/28/2022 6:30:44 AM PDT by logi_cal869 (-cynicus the "concern troll" a/o 10/03/2018 /!i!! &@$%&*(@ -)
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To: FarCenter

I think this article is completely bunk. NATO collapses if Ukraine is defeated and/or comes to a peace agreement that leaves the Donbas in Russian hands? I don’t buy that. At all.

If anything, the alliance is stronger. The Western Europeans have finally woken up and realized they need to provide for their own defense and need to diversify their energy supplies. The US had been screaming at them to do this for 30-40 years to no avail. Now there’s no political resistance to it any more.

Another point I disagree with are his claims about Putin having grandiose ambitions everywhere else. Russia will win this conflict but it has been costly economically and militarily. If anything, I think this will make Putin or any other future Russian leader cautious about taking the military option.

Pouring yet more money and yet more weapons down the Ukraine rat hole is not in American interests. Ukraine should be pressured to make a deal ceding those areas Russia occupies which just so happen to correspond to historical Russian territory and which are filled mostly with ethnic Russians who are Russian speakers.

Yes we do need to focus much more on the Asia Pacific Region. The Europeans should be able to defend themselves with America in reserve - not at the forefront.


29 posted on 06/28/2022 6:33:25 AM PDT by FLT-bird
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To: BipolarBob

Funny that the left wing used to say this sort of stuff. Now they’re all silent as the grave that a Marxist election thief is running things.


30 posted on 06/28/2022 6:34:01 AM PDT by Telepathic Intruder
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To: FarCenter
--- "... the consequences of a Ukrainian defeat. They would be catastrophic."

So many institutes and institutional men out there, This one, Seth Cropsey, born in 1948, is a open neocon, and founder and president of Yorktown Institute. He served as a US naval officer and as deputy undersecretary of the navy, and is the author of the books Mayday and Seablindness.

https://yorktowninstitute.org/

If one looks at the Yorktown Institute splash page today, the first article by Stephen Bryen (highlighted) is titled "US and NATO Lack Capability to Supply a Long War."

Seems that the Ukraine/Russia conflict is already catastrophic, so his Asia Times article is more blah-blah heaped onto the morass of commentary about that which cannot be known.

What may be known is that, according to Yorktown, "US and NATO Lack Capability to Supply a Long War." What may also been known is that the current Western sanctions are harming the West far more effectively that an actual but non-nuclear war with Russia. The current crop of neocons -- Kagans, Nuland and this guy in the headlines -- want US hegemony over the world, while the West "lacks capability." Fighting to the death for all those young Ukrainian men who will never be fathers is not a future for Ukraine, while the neocons and Leftists like Biden and the Democrat princelings who were making millions in the Ukraine (Biden, Pelosi, Kerry and Romney) cheer on the carnage. From afar.

Yeah. Either way, this thing -- like the recent Covid "event" and economically destructive lockdowns -- is catastrophic. Another analysis should turn the tide.

By the way, among Cropsey's Yorktown advisors is ex-Senator and Gore running mate, Lieberman, so "neocon." huh?

What would REALLY be catastrophic for the current game is if SWIFT, being used to sanction Russia, was now bypassed as a competitive currency transfer exchange among the BRICS were to be one result of the proxy war between Russia and neocon grift and corruption. No good players in this game, I'd say.

31 posted on 06/28/2022 6:39:16 AM PDT by Worldtraveler once upon a time
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To: Telepathic Intruder

“Not enough reason to explain why we’re in this war.”

Because America’s enemies wanted us to do a proxy war with Russia. And neocons, dems, etc. took the bait.

How does it hurt us? Let me count the ways... inflation, food shortages (worldwide!), blown military budget, even more animosity generated towards us, removal of the dollar as primary world currency, digital currency forced down our throats...etc.

Dumbest move the US has made in 20 years. We’ll be paying the price for generations.


32 posted on 06/28/2022 7:08:56 AM PDT by Basket_of_Deplorables (Putin is behaving rationally.The war is on Biden and Obama. )
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To: FarCenter

NATO is the free, anti-communist NATO of the cold war era; Putin isn’t another Stalin or Khrushchev; and we can better use Zelensky’s $100 billion here at home.


33 posted on 06/28/2022 7:20:03 AM PDT by Socon-Econ (adi)
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To: FarCenter

You posting your Asia Times commie propaganda again, newbie??

** IGNORE **


34 posted on 06/28/2022 8:01:22 AM PDT by canuck_conservative
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To: EEGator

These warmongers missed the bus. Last Wednesday the 22nd would have the auspicious date to launch war with Russia. After all, third times a charm.


35 posted on 06/28/2022 8:12:40 AM PDT by rxh4n1
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To: canuck_conservative

Biden or Trudeau propaganda isn’t commie?


36 posted on 06/28/2022 8:15:23 AM PDT by dforest (We have to put a stop to this now.)
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To: Basket_of_Deplorables

Americas enemies are running...er running down America already. This proxy war was their idea and they purposefully, over and over again, incited the war until Russia took them up on it because a red line was crossed. They have been inciting this war since the USSR fell. America’s enemies aren’t giving you any info on how they incited it and most do not even know how they did it. They just buy MSM bullsheet.


37 posted on 06/28/2022 8:28:07 AM PDT by dforest (We have to put a stop to this now.)
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To: FarCenter
Russia is going to win. If NATO got involved militarily, it would be Vietnam at best, and Russia would still win.

Globalism, the new world order and neoconism absolutely must die if American First, MAGA nationalism is to replace it.

38 posted on 06/28/2022 9:17:02 AM PDT by Kazan
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To: FarCenter
Conservatives are NOT tolerating 1) US troops being placed in harm's way in a hot war with Russia 2) A sanction war that will continue to increase inflation 3) Billions of tax dollars being wasted on feckless and futile proxy war in Ukraine that has absolutely nothing to do with our national security.

Any Republican that supports any of that needs to cleansed from the party by the base.

39 posted on 06/28/2022 9:24:05 AM PDT by Kazan
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To: dforest

#32

Well said!


40 posted on 06/28/2022 9:33:14 AM PDT by Basket_of_Deplorables (Putin is behaving rationally.The war is on Biden and Obama. )
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