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To: Hypo2

RE: Any docs removed by the President are automatically declassified

I keep reading this from no other place but here in FR, but I don’t see this being acknowledged anywhere else.

However, It looks to me like Declassifying a classified document requires FORMAL STEPS and PROCEDURES to be followed so that there is documentation that declassification was indeed done.


12 posted on 09/20/2022 9:41:37 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

I don’t know the right of it but I bet it would be easy to convince a jury of indy-lib people that it was so.


13 posted on 09/20/2022 9:52:53 PM PDT by citizen (Thieves of private property pass their lives in chains; thieves of public prop. in riches and luxury)
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To: SeekAndFind

That steps were not followed...


14 posted on 09/20/2022 9:54:48 PM PDT by citizen (Thieves of private property pass their lives in chains; thieves of public prop. in riches and luxury)
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To: SeekAndFind
It looks to me like Declassifying a classified document requires FORMAL STEPS and PROCEDURES to be followed so that there is documentation that declassification was indeed done.

It's simple, but at the same time it's complicated.

Yes, the President can look at a classified document and say "this is now declassified" and that is perfectly legal. In fact, that is how most "leaks" to the media are fed to the media on background, they are approved leaks, which is why they don't end up in people going to jail. Yes, the president could have had what he has characterized as a "standing order" to treat all documents that went to Mar a Lago as automatically declassified, that is super unusual, but within the President's authority.

Further to this, even if Trump never declared something declassified, it is within the President's authority to take a piece of classified information and share it, still treating it as classified, with a foreign government... even an adversarial one. Politically, it could be considered treasonous, but legally, not disallowed. I'm not saying that is anything that occurred in this case, but given the accusations by NeverTrump, it's worth stating. By the way, this is exactly what happens when the President (or much more frequently SecState, an Ambassador, or the Cia director) steps in to make personal appeals to foreign leaders to stop terrorist acts or avoid war. "I know you are about to do X, our intelligence community has proof. Don't do X and we won't be forced to respond militarily."

There is also issues around physical copies of reports versus digital copies, and sources and methods... not really important for the point I want to make, but it would be very unusual for Trump to have the "only copy" of anything, and when a report gets assembled for an executive customer, it's written in a way that helps the executive the most. Knowing where and how the Intel is gathered is very rarely discussed, because it doesn't need to be. Can an adversary figure it out if they know "what" was in the report? Possibly, but that's an argument for a different thread.

Now, the complicated part happened on Jan 21, 2021. Trump is no longer Potus, his files should be safely stored away in Mar a Lago in accordance with established and agreed upon procedures, but there are these files. Some nebbish in the National Archives decides he can make Trump's life hell out of office and deny him access to as much material from his term as possible so there will never be a Trump Presidential Library of any substance. Nebbish person figures out that a number of reports marked classified or that should have copies for the archives according to the Presidential Records Act are in Florida amd calls up the DoJ. Sure enough, files marked as classified are there. Some are returned ro the archives, some, curiously, are not. An investigation is launched with the goal of finally putting Trump in handcuffs even though the Trump organization is working with the Archives and cooperating.

Raid happens. Files found with markings. Trump claims they are covered under his prior standing order, which, again, was legitimate while he was Potus, but also very unusual compared to how prior presidents handled things.

For whatever reason, proof of this standing order has apparently yet to be provided to the court. Yes, there have been media statements, but those are different than sworn statements. Team Trump is also curiously not just showing the judge a memo from 2017 or whenever that should have cleared this all up. That doesn't make things easy for the judge (who is not authorized by the president to decide what is classified or not classified... different branch of government and all).

If you aren't able to determine classified information, the rules say you treat existing markings as valid. There is a process to challenge markings, but that's for people down the food chain from potus, and that's not what is being done here.

While we are at it, if something has been declassified and not released out into the world, it can be reclassified. That would take Biden's intervention, or someone acting directly on Biden's authority, and even now it would be very unusual for a president to not give deference to his predecessor on these things, and Trump was allowed to store classified Presidential records on site as part of his office of former president stuff.

The special master concerns could be cleared up with sworn proof of this "standing order". But, I guess the Trump legal position is that the raid and seizure was illegitimate in the first place, so it is the government's obligation to prove they took classified documents legitimately first. Absent that memo though, which is kind of being presented as a Catch 22, the government cam lean on that search warrant, which was overly broad and never should have been approved by that judge... who should have recused himself and never even heard the request for the warrant...

This is a very long way of saying the judge seems to be following a procedure, the Trump team is trying to prevent giving any of this raid legitimacy, and the judge could have an easier time of it if given proof of the blanket declassification... which would have been legitimate at the time but also not necessarily durable after Trump left office and the whole thing doesn't address if the raid was yet another effort to launch an investigation to find a crime to pin on Trump.

26 posted on 09/20/2022 11:14:54 PM PDT by jz638
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To: SeekAndFind

There is no higher Authority of Classified Material than the POTUS!!! That is how it works!! He controls what is classified, How it is Classified. Ect!!! He can wave a magic wand over a file cabinet and everything in it becomes unclassified!! He makes all the rules for classification!!


41 posted on 09/21/2022 4:55:41 AM PDT by southernerwithanattitude (New and Improved Redneck!)
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To: SeekAndFind

Here is one declassification memo on FBI’s Crossfire docs. After the president declare the documents declassified, they are unclassified regardless of the markings on them.

Memorandum on Declassification of Certain Materials Related to the FBI’s Crossfire Hurricane Investigation
LAW & JUSTICE

Issued on: January 19, 2021
SHARE:
ALL NEWS
MEMORANDUM FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
THE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE
THE DIRECTOR OF THE CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY

SUBJECT: Declassification of Certain Materials Related to the FBI’s Crossfire Hurricane Investigation

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, I hereby direct the following:

Section 1. Declassification and Release. At my request, on December 30, 2020, the Department of Justice provided the White House with a binder of materials related to the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Crossfire Hurricane investigation. Portions of the documents in the binder have remained classified and have not been released to the Congress or the public. I requested the documents so that a declassification review could be performed and so I could determine to what extent materials in the binder should be released in unclassified form.

I determined that the materials in that binder should be declassified to the maximum extent possible. In response, and as part of the iterative process of the declassification review, under a cover letter dated January 17, 2021, the Federal Bureau of Investigation noted its continuing objection to any further declassification of the materials in the binder and also, on the basis of a review that included Intelligence Community equities, identified the passages that it believed it was most crucial to keep from public disclosure. I have determined to accept the redactions proposed for continued classification by the FBI in that January 17 submission.

I hereby declassify the remaining materials in the binder. This is my final determination under the declassification review and I have directed the Attorney General to implement the redactions proposed in the FBI’s January 17 submission and return to the White House an appropriately redacted copy.

My decision to declassify materials within the binder is subject to the limits identified above and does not extend to materials that must be protected from disclosure pursuant to orders of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court and does not require the disclosure of certain personally identifiable information or any other materials that must be protected from disclosure under applicable law. Accordingly, at my direction, the Attorney General has conducted an appropriate review to ensure that materials provided in the binder may be disclosed by the White House in accordance with applicable law.

Sec. 2. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this memorandum shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

(i) the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or

(ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.

(b) This memorandum shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

(c) This memorandum is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

(d) The Attorney General is authorized and directed to publish this memorandum in the Federal Register.

DONALD J. TRUMP

The White House


46 posted on 09/21/2022 5:07:57 AM PDT by bosco24 (EOD)
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