[Widget Jr]

Posted to critique and criticize, not to agree.

The Hindustan Times is a Indian newspaper. I have noticed they play the game of lets-you-and-him-fight between other countries, as long as India is on the side and comes out ahead. They do not care who wins, as long as the US, Europe and western nations lose.

Videos of man portable anti-tank missiles and drones dropping grenades in hatches are good propaganda for Ukriane (and there is propaganda value in it). The reality is, the primary antiarmor and antivehicle weapons are mines and artillery. For each tank tanken out by a drone, several more run into mines or get hit by artillery. Active protection like the Arena-M can not defend from mines or artillery.

Reactive armor is nice on paper. Real life is different. Missiles like the TOW-II field in 1987 tandem warhead to defeat reactive armor, where the first blows off the reactive armor, the second destroys the tank. The RBS 56 Bill anti-tank missile was first deployed in 1988 flies over and attacks the top armor. Modern missiles like the Javelin and NLAW do the same. Even if the reactive armor works, there are some attacks where its effectiveness is limited by the limited armor behind it, and the vehcile may have enough damage that it is crippled anyway. The crew can get away, the vehicle is still a loss.

Manufacturing and deployment. Russia still has to build and deploy it to the battlefield. Just like getting US and NATO equipment takes time, this applies to new Russian equipment as well.

Russian hype versus Russian reality. The Arena-M system was first developed in 1993. The newer Afganit is used on the T-14 Armata. The problem with the Afganit is, when China was considering the T-14, one of the compliants was the Afganit did not work. If the newer active protection systems do not work, how well does a older system actually work? As well as, if Russia has had active protection like the Arena-M since they 1990s, why have they not deployed in any conflict they have been involved since, unless the systems do not work as claimed?

Complaints, more informed comments, criticisms, angry ranting and raving?

Tear Collection Kits available at poster's expense.

[Celtic Conservative]

Those might work unless some corrupt vendor used blocks of wood instead of reactive armor plates.

CC

[Brian Griffin]

It’s an active armor protection system that shoots two shells at an incoming threat coming from a wide range of directions.

https://euro-sd.com/2021/11/articles/exclusive/24493/arena-m-aps/

[Brian Griffin]

Any type of weapon system the US can make the Russians can make, and in larger quantities.

[MeganC]

Can’t wait to see Comrade Putin most bestest T-34 tank will be stronk like ox!

[Brian Griffin]

https://www.armyrecognition.com/weapons_defence_industry_military_technology_uk/analysis_russian_afganit_active_protection_system_is_able_to_intercept_uranium_tank_ammunition_tass_11012163.html

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Great news!

[dila813]

You’re supposed to work on a lot of our anti-tank munitions, the latest ones were designed with this system in mind and they go way up in the air and they come straight down onto the turret where there is no protection, that’s so jib and Jive right at the last minute as well

[piytar]

Arena-M reactive armour Is easily overcome. It may have been effective 30 or so years ago. Now a joke.

[nickfrost1]

This article may be good paying attention to the new Russian armor protection. But it has a lot of lapses.

Just one. Russia didn’t install it on her tanks WIDELY before simply because there were NO threats around from any enemy forces which might make her purpose really needed.

Until now in this war. So let us see how it will work in real war. Actually they test her against tow2 and other staff they captured from ukies. The article says she withstood tests.

[Redmen4ever]

some terminology:

turret toss - when the tank’s carousel of rounds is touched off when the tank is hit, throwing the tank’s turret into the air like a shot put

see 30 second mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ouhZrLntnk

the nice thing about turret toss is that the crew is completely incinerated. Hence, no need to send the crew home in body bags.

alternate: jack in the box, and taco bell

[blueunicorn6]

It appears that both sides in this war are too stupid to realize that tanks are outdated and that they should conduct their attacks with Soldiers charging into kill sacks with the protection of good running times.

[familyop]

Russian claims about some of its equipment are similar to those of the mullahs of Iran.

Russians Reported on Final Stage Tests of the Arena Reactive Armor Complex For Tanks
Defense Express
April 6, 2023
https://en.defence-ua.com/analysis/russians_reported_on_final_stage_tests_of_the_arena_reactive_armor_complex_for_tanks-6307.html

In the USSR, they began to develop active defense complexes back in the 60s, and the Arena itself went to the test site as early as 1982

Once a year, the russian federation mentions that they still have a Soviet development of the Arena ERA. This complex should intercept the ammunition on the approach to the armored vehicle and thereby ensure its protection.

And it was drawn in the USSR in the 70s under the research and design work Shatyor. In 1982, the first sample of the Soviet reactive armor complex went to the test site, but the work was not completed before the collapse of the USSR. And since then, it has been in the stage of development.

Defense Express reminds that the work on the development of the Soviet ERA was carried out since the 60s, and the first sample is the Drozd, which ended up on several experimental T-80U’s, one of which was destroyed in Sumy Oblast back in March of last year.

In particular, russian mass media stated today that the Arena-M on the T-72 tank successfully passed the test. And the representatives of the developer reported that “at the moment, the issue of adopting the Arena-M ERA into service as part of the T-72 tank is at the final stage”. They also added that the T-90 and T-80 should receive it in the future.

At the same time, it is possible to find older articles. In particular, in September 2022, russia’s Ministry of Defense reported that in the future russian tanks will be with the Arena ERA. Although in 2019 they said that the T-72B3 with the Arena installed had already been tested and even showed photos.

In 2017, according to the general director of russia’s Mechanical Design Bureau, the Arena-M is actively tested and will soon be on T-72 and T-90 tanks. The same ERA, in this modernized version, was previously demonstrated in 2015, stating that it was about to be adopted with the army. Back in 2013, it had been also shown with the same statements.

And before that, russians with no less enthusiasm publicly demonstrated the previous version of the Arena in the form of a separate block above the turret, which somewhat resembled a birdhouse, since 1997. At the same time, it was proposed to install it on the BMP-3.

Defense Express notes that during the existence of the ERA development, which has been undergoing testing since 1982, the actual state of affairs has changed little. The main problems in the development of ERA complex are not in its placement, or in the presence of striking elements or in radar or optical inspection systems, but in the speed of reaction and the ability to distinguish a threat.

In particular, the speed of a modern sub-caliber projectile is 1.5 km/s. In the range of the ERA radar, which is measured in tens of meters, it will be in hundredths of a second when the system should see it, calculate the trajectory, and then give the command to shoot the striking element. For the first version of the Arena the reaction speed was declared at the level of 0.07 seconds, which was not enough to intercept targets with a speed of more than 700 m/s.

The second problem of ERA complexes is the risk of damage by the complex itself to its own infantry, which is located near armored vehicles. And the third factor is its price.

Apparently, russia’s Ministry of Defense has significantly reduced its requirements for development. For example, we are not talking about intercepting sub-caliber armor-piercing projectiles, but only about anti-tank missiles. Requirements for the safety of own infantry could also be removed, given the absence of human resources shortage. And in this case, Arena ERA can really be supplied to the russian troops, since this reactive armor is worse in terms of its capabilities than the one that had been designed in the USSR.

[Kazan]

Russian Forces Advance As Fighting Intensifies In Bakhmut Center

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsfDGx-0Uko

Russia Controls 85% Bakhmut, Missile Strikes, Rumours Kiev Counterattack, MSM Ukraine Morale Falling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t-ljobOzfk&t=1s

[ganeemead]

Notice he’s talking about 72s, 80s, and 90s. Nothing about 50 series tanks as per a few of the goofballs who post nato BS on FR...

[Paul R.]

Arena-M armour is NOT very effective against Javelins. It may do better vs. some other light & medium anti-tank weapons, but I agree: It is useless against mines or artillery, esp. the Excalibur HTK.