Posted on 06/20/2023 4:51:25 AM PDT by hardspunned
MOSCOW, June 20. /TASS/. Ukraine’s armed forces command is plotting to deliver strikes on Russian territory, including Crimea, with HIMARS rockets and Storm Shadow missiles, Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu said at a ministry board meeting on Tuesday.
"According to our data, the leadership of the Ukrainian armed forces is planning to deliver strikes on the territory of the Russian Federation, including Crimea, with HIMARS [rockets] and Storm Shadow missiles," he said.
The top military official stressed that the use of these weapons outside of the special military operation zone would trigger immediate strikes by Russia on decision-making centers in Ukraine and would imply the full-fledged involvement of the US and UK in the conflict.
(Excerpt) Read more at tass.com ...
Is this a surprise? This has been the gist of their plan since winter.
The Russian sound like this is some kind of war crime.
Is that a rhetorical question? Nuland has stated publicly that the US has been working with Ukraine on its counteroffensive for months. We have advisers on the ground and provide Ukraine with real time tactical intel to target the Russians. We have admitted to having 15 military special forces in Ukraine, but no mention of contractors.
I posit that the US does have operational control of these systems. It wouldn’t surprise me to learn we have contractors operating and maintaining them. The contractors can be of any nationality.
The Russians are learning the damndest thing about starting a war is you don’t have control over how long it goes, or where it goes.
The enemy gets a vote.
Bush warned Obama that Russia wanted to take Crimea.
Obama asked Putin to wait until after his re-election.
Then Obama took no action after Russia annexed Crimea.
Crimea belongs to Russia. It is Russian territory.
To claim Crimea is not Russian a half decade later is not credible.
Yes, if the US did not have operational control, the idiots in Ukraine’s leadership would have attacked Moscow by now out of vengeance .
I think a similar lesson has not been learned by the Neocons in Washington.
seems to me that a couple hundred B-17’s and a wave or two of ground attack P-51’s would be just as effective as all this modern garbage that costs millions every time we lose one
So many people, including a few FR members, want to see a one-way war, where Russia can do anything it wishes and Ukraine can only fight back with bb-guns.
In war, anything goes and you do all you can to defend yourself from being exterminated. Russia bombs cities and infrastructure and schools and hospitals, and kills women and children as part of its policy, and Ukraine had better not fight back equally.
And, OH!, NATO had not better get involved, or Russia will make things even worse. FACT is that Russia cannot do anything that would be worse than what they’ve done so far. Threats to use nuclear weapons are just threats, and it they were to use them, then it would be a certain loss of the war for them.
War is hell, but hell cannot be allowed from one side only.
B17s and P51s would all be shot down. Everyone of them, regardless of how many you had. To think otherwise is simply silly.
You left out the US/EU engineered coup led by Victoria Nuland in 2014 that led to the removal of the duly elected President of Ukraine. It spawned the separatist movement in the Donbas and provoked the first Russian invasion that resulted in the unopposed annexation of Crimea. This war has been going on since 2014. It started under the Obama/Biden administration. And now it comes full circle with Biden, Nuland, Sullivan. Blinken, Powers, et. al. back at the helm directing our involvement in the war with the same disastrous results.
“The top military official stressed that the use of these weapons outside of the special military operation zone would trigger immediate strikes by Russia on decision-making centers in Ukraine and would imply the full-fledged involvement of the US and UK in the conflict.”
See how that works?
-Russian military conquers territory.
-Russian politicians declare it part of Russia.
-Russian government says anyone who supports taking the territory back is committing “full-fledged involvement”.
As if using Russian military to conquer neighboring countries isn’t “full fledged involvement”.
No one wins a nuclear war. We have no treaty commitment or obligation to defend Ukraine. This war has been ongoing for 9 years. It started under Obama/Biden after we aided an illegal coup against the duly elected President of Ukraine.
Fellow Democrat and Biden opponent, RFKjr replied:
Blinken’s speech highlights once again that the Biden Administration has no intention of ending this conflict peacefully. The plan, which members of the administration including Blinken have explicitly admitted on numerous occasions, is to use Ukraine to achieve the larger geopolitical goal of weakening Russia. In other words, the Ukrainians are cannon fodder in a U.S. proxy war against Russia.
“Blinken’s statement is consistent with reports in Foreign Affairs magazine last September citing numerous American former security officials that Russia and Ukraine had actually reached a tentative peace agreement in April 2022. That deal was scuttled after Boris Johnson, doubtless at the behest of the Biden Administration, visited Kyiv on April 9. Later, Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett, who was trying to mediate between Vladimir Putin and Volodymyr Zelenski, stated that the U.S. and its allies blocked his mediation efforts.
“The pattern here is clear. Not only is the administration deceiving the American people about the motives for this costly and tragic war, but by continually escalating it they put the whole world at risk of nuclear conflagration.
“I call upon President Biden to heed the advice of John F. Kennedy in his 1963 Peace Speech, when he said: ‘Nuclear powers must avert those confrontations which bring an adversary to a choice of either a humiliating retreat or a nuclear war.’”
Hmmm..... I thought that military installations within Russia have already been targeted. Even sites as far away as Kursk have been targeted
Yes, the Modus Operandi since the end of World War II has been to have our intelligence agencies agitate nations into instability in order to justify US military involvement that benefits our political class and results in lucrative rebuilding contracts at high prices that deliver substandard results.
The US has also used its economic power as the reserve currency and largest economy to enforce its foreign policy, punishing those who do not agree.
Now we stand on the brink of nuclear war, the weakest economy, a banking system on the verge of collapse while the world considers abandoning the dollar and trading amongst themselves.
They are tired of the warmongering bully known as the United States of America.
The same incompetent national security team led by Victoria Nuland that started this war in 2014 returned to power in 2021. The Russians have had the red line of no NATO membership for Ukraine since 2008. The US has ignored the red line with the Biden Administration doubling down on NATO expansion. Biden/Nuland watched the massing of Russian troops on the Ukrainian border for almost a year. US/NATO took a number of provocative actions virtually guaranteeing a Russian invasion. A diplomatic solution was eschewed.
If you believe government inflation statistics, in 2023 dollars, one copy of the P-51 would cost about $800K
It was the drone of its day. Cheap, fast, built in incredibly large numbers (over 15,000 P-51s were made)
We now do the opposite - incredibly expensive, technologically complex. It benefits the MIC though
"List of surviving Boeing B-17 Flying Fortresses "
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_surviving_Boeing_B-17_Flying_Fortresses
Geez, I thought I was old....
But Russia bombed the dam... I get it
In 1962, Russia f****ed around on our borders, threatened our security by putting offensive weapons on them, and found out what the USA’s resolve was
Why shouldn’t we expect the exact same response from them, when we do the same on their borders?
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