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Ukraine and the West are facing a devastating defeat...(The prospect of a failed counter-offensive and significant territorial concessions)
Telegraph UK ^ | 7/18/2023 | Robert Clark

Posted on 07/19/2023 8:04:42 AM PDT by caww

Since Putin’s tanks crossed into Ukrainian territory, three options have been on the table for how this war would end:... victory for one side or the other, a frozen conflict or a negotiated settlement.

The long-planned counter-offensive, has run into several problems.. It is incredibly tough going for the Ukrainians. They lack the air cover and advanced jets to protect their ground forces from Russian attack helicopters and fighters. Their soldiers, meanwhile must negotiate miles of minefields, tank-traps and then ultimately the heavily dug Russian trench networks.

The variable that isn’t on their side is time. In war, time is perhaps the cruellest factor one cannot change...Summer will soon begin to roll into autumn. Indeed, we are already half-way through the season. The fighting will begin to grind to a cold halt as the freezing winter saps troops’ ability to conduct high-intensity warfare. This will only give Russia more time to further build up its defences, as it did last winter.

If Kyiv fails in its battlefield endeavours 'to split that land bridge, and retake much of its own territory' by winter, then vocal calls of territorial concessions for marginal political outcomes will likely become far more prevalent – not just in Ukraine but likely from western capitals, as so-called “war-fatigue” begins to bite, international stockpiles of equipment and ammunition wither and politicians begin to worry about domestic budgets ahead of national elections.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: russiansuicide
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In truth, other than ceasefire, there is little for Ukraine to concede, since Russia are already in possession of most of the territory that they initially sought to conquer.

Elon Musk predicted many months ago, the war will eventually end, along these lines:

Ukraine-Russia Peace:

- Redo elections of annexed regions under UN supervision. Russia leaves if that is will of the people.

- Crimea formally part of Russia, as it has been since 1783 (until Khrushchev’s mistake).

- Water supply to Crimea assured.

- Ukraine remains neutral.

1 posted on 07/19/2023 8:04:42 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww

We (Ukraine) need Pence!


2 posted on 07/19/2023 8:06:23 AM PDT by stevio (Fight until you die.)
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To: caww

And who is next from a victorious Russia? Moldova, Georgia, the Balkans?


3 posted on 07/19/2023 8:08:33 AM PDT by Midwesterner53
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To: stevio

I doubt you even read this article or you wouldn’t have posted what you did.


4 posted on 07/19/2023 8:09:28 AM PDT by caww (O death, when you seized my Lord, you lost your grip on me......)
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To: caww
Ukraine and the West are facing a devastating defeat

Awww, gee whiz...

After they shot themselves in both feet.

Who woulda guessed?

5 posted on 07/19/2023 8:11:24 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Celebrate Decivilization)
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To: caww

I agree with your scenario the only thing is Zelensky probably has to go, Russia is aware that Ukraine will probably start a guerilla war after any peace deal just annoy and bleed Russia.


6 posted on 07/19/2023 8:12:03 AM PDT by srmanuel
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To: Midwesterner53
That will depend on how much further NATO takes things...Putin will certainly do what he thinks is needed to keep his country secure and protected from any thing he sees as a threat from Nato/West.
7 posted on 07/19/2023 8:12:40 AM PDT by caww (O death, when you seized my Lord, you lost your grip on me......)
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To: caww

You’re right, I didn’t read it. But it was sarcasm.


8 posted on 07/19/2023 8:14:21 AM PDT by stevio (Fight until you die.)
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To: caww

- Crimea formally part of Russia, as it has been since 1783 (until Khrushchev’s mistake).

I think the borders were deliberately drawn this way by the Soviets to stir up this kind of trouble if they lost power, a final parting legacy.


9 posted on 07/19/2023 8:14:40 AM PDT by rxh4n1
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To: caww

That’s a reasonable solution, so our Neocons will see that won’t happen.
More white people need to die, because it’s good for the economy.

Just ask Yellen and crew…


10 posted on 07/19/2023 8:14:42 AM PDT by EEGator
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To: caww

Pretty much and the NWO criminal syndicate destroyed leaving the cabal very short on money.


11 posted on 07/19/2023 8:15:05 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped)
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To: caww

One must subscribe to read the article.

PAYWALL


12 posted on 07/19/2023 8:16:49 AM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: caww
Given this:

"According to former German Chancellor Angela Merkel, the Minsk agreement served to buy time to rearm Ukraine. “The 2014 Minsk agreement was an attempt to give Ukraine time,” Merkel told the weekly Die Zeit. “It also used this time to become stronger, as you can see today.”"

How is one to be assured the ceasefire terms as you laid out would be honored. One would think it would carry no more weight than a "Palestinian peace".

13 posted on 07/19/2023 8:17:22 AM PDT by Tench_Coxe (The woke were surprised by the reaction to the Bud Light fiasco. May there be many more surprises)
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To: Georgia Girl 2

Let’s see. Europe is bigger than Israel. What am I getting at? Israel is our canary in the mideast coal mine. We’re getting what we paid for.

Europe? They’re as big as we are but won’t help Ukraine like we do. Lip service only.
Are we getting what we paid for?


14 posted on 07/19/2023 8:18:24 AM PDT by DIRTYSECRET (e allowed )
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To: Midwesterner53
And who is next from a victorious Russia? Moldova, Georgia, the Balkans?

As you know from all the experts, ruzzia already has already lost. 14 million orcs were killed by an old lady with a pickle jar, and the fifteen individual troops that remain are reduced to using a captured WWI Sturmpanzerwagen A7V since every one of their newer tanks have been destroyed.

Also, I've been assured that china is about to take all of Siberia at any moment.

So why would you think the dirty ruzzzzzians are going to be able to roll into the Balkans, let alone Poland?

15 posted on 07/19/2023 8:18:50 AM PDT by Sirius Lee (They intend to murder us. Prep if you want to live and live like you are prepping for eternal life)
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To: Mariner

https://archive.ph/dH01O


16 posted on 07/19/2023 8:26:13 AM PDT by kiryandil (China Joe and Paycheck Hunter - the Chink in America's defenses)
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To: caww

Have the Democrats made the case to send chemical weapons yet? I assume after cluster bombs that chemical weapons are next-gen on the list to send.


17 posted on 07/19/2023 8:27:15 AM PDT by Obadiah
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To: stevio

This is FR. It’s your right, duty even, to not read the articles.


18 posted on 07/19/2023 8:31:32 AM PDT by EEGator
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To: Midwesterner53

Are Moldova, Georgia, or the Balkans threats to the Russian border??? Have they been armed by NATO??? Do they have an active war now going on between militias and national armies as did Ukraine and territories of Dombas???


19 posted on 07/19/2023 8:31:52 AM PDT by elpadre
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To: Mariner
No paywall when I accessed it.
20 posted on 07/19/2023 8:32:18 AM PDT by caww (O death, when you seized my Lord, you lost your grip on me......)
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