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HOW THE UNITED STATES AND ITS NATO ALLIES SABOTAGED PEACE BETWEEN RUSSIA AND UKRAINE
Sonar 21 ^ | 14 Nov 23 | Larry Johnson

Posted on 11/17/2023 5:55:10 PM PST by delta7

We now know that the United States played the primary role in sabotaging the March 29, 2022 tentative peace agreement between Russia and Ukraine thanks to the recently published article by Hajo Funke and Harald Kujat, HOW THE CHANCE WAS LOST FOR A PEACE SETTLEMENT OF THE UKRAINE WAR — AND THE WEST WANTED TO CONTINUE THE WAR INSTEAD. The United States persuaded its NATO allies that pursuing the war against Russia, using Ukraine as a proxy, offered a legitimate opportunity to destroy Russia. You want a definition of evil? This is it. Instead of helping end the war between Russia and Ukraine, the United States and its NATO puppets condemned hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers to death in a war with Russia they could not win.

In the course of strong arming Ukraine’s Zelensky into rejecting the peace agreement, the West prepared and launched a propaganda campaign that claimed that Ukrainian military forces defeated the Russian forces and compelled them to retreat. It was a lie. As you will read in the timeline below, Putin ordered the withdrawal of Russian forces starting on April 1, 2022 as a good faith gesture about Russia’s seriousness in complying with the 29 March Istanbul Agreement.

Chalk this up as one more massive war crime by the United States and NATO. They are accessories to murder. I have summarized the timeline presented in the Funke/Kujat article if you do not have time to read it in its entirety. I also am republishing their piece for your convenience. All of the death and destruction experienced in Ukraine and Russia could have been avoided. But the West was intent on dethroning Putin and carving up Russia. Once you understand this point I think you will appreciate that Putin and his Generals are no longer of a mind to give the West the benefit of the doubt. Destroying NATO’s designs on Ukraine is now their chief aim in my view.

March 4, 2022 — Putin and Naftali Bennet speak via phone.

March 5, 2022 — At Putin’s invitation, former Israeli Prime Minister Bennett flew to Moscow. Putin, Bennett said, had made some substantial concessions, in particular, he had renounced his original wartime goal of demilitarizing Ukraine. … .In return, the Ukrainian president agreed to renounce joining NATO. The Ukrainians did not agree to peace because they were not allowed to. They first had to ask the Americans about everything they discussed.”

March 6, 2022 — Bennett and Scholz met in Berlin; on March 7, the United States, the United Kingdom, France, and Germany discussed the issue in a videoconference; on

March 8, 2022 — Macron and Scholz spoke on the phone; on

March 10, 2022 — Ukrainian Foreign Minister Kuleba and Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov met in Ankara; on

March 12, 2022 — Scholz and Zelensky and Scholz and Macron spoke on the phone; and on

March 14, 2022 — Scholz and Erdogan met in Ankara.

March 15-19, 2022 — Only a month after the outbreak of the war, Ukraine and Russia agreed on the broad outlines of a peace settlement. Ukraine promised not to join NATO and not to allow military bases of foreign powers on its territory, while Russia promised in return to recognize Ukraine’s territorial integrity and to withdraw all Russian occupation troops. Special arrangements were made for the Donbas and Crimea.”

March 24, 2022 — NATO decided at a special summit on March 24, 2022, not to support these peace negotiations.

March 27, 2022 — Zelensky defended the results of the Ukrainian-Russian peace negotiations in public before Russian journalists

March 28, 2022 — Putin, as a sign of goodwill and in support of the peace negotiations, declared readiness to withdraw troops from the Kharkov area and the Kiev area

29 March, 2002 — Turkiye’s President Erdogan hosted a Ukrainian-Russian peace conference in Istanbul and an armistice agreement was approved in principle.

April 1, 2022 — Putin orders Russian troops to initiate withdrawal from Kiev and Kharkiv in show of good faith in accordance with the armistice agreed to in Istanbul.

April 5, 2022 — NATO was firm in its position that continuing the war is preferred to a cease-fire and negotiated settlement: “For some in NATO, it’s better for Ukrainians to keep fighting and dying than to achieve a peace that comes too soon or at too high a price for Kiev and the rest of Europe.”

April 6, 2022 — Russia completes withdrawal from Kiev suburbs and Kharkiv.

April 9, 2022 — Boris Johnson arrived unannounced in Kiev and told the Ukrainian president that the West was not ready to end the war.

April 25, 2022 — U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said the U.S. wants to use the opportunity to permanently weaken Russia militarily and economically in the wake of the Ukraine war.

April 26, 2022 — Meeting with defense ministers from NATO members and other countries convened by Austin in Ramstein, Rhineland-Palatinate/ Germany, the Pentagon chief declared the military victory of Ukraine as a strategic goal.

April 28, 2022 — According to Britain’s Guardian, PM Johnson “instructed” Ukrainian President Zelensky “not to make any concessions to Putin.”

Berlin, October 2023

In March 2022, direct peace negotiations between Ukrainian and Russian delegations and mediation efforts by the then Israeli Prime Minster, Naftali Bennet created a genuine chance for ending the war peacefully only four to five weeks after Russia had invaded Ukraine. However, instead of ending the war through negotiations as Ukrainian President Zelensky and his government appeared to have wanted, he ultimately bowed to pressures from some Western powers to abandon a negotiated solution. Western powers wanted this war to continue in the hope to break Russia. Ukraine’s decision to abandon negotiations may been taken before the discovery of a massacre of civilians in the town of Bucha near Kiev.

In the following is an attempt of a step-by-step reconstruction of the events that led to the peace negotiations in March and their collapse in early April 2022.

IN EARLY MARCH 2022, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER NAFTALI BENNETT UNDERTOOK MEDIATION EFFORTS …

Naftali Bennett had undertaken mediation efforts beginning in the first week of March 2022. In a video interview with Israeli journalist Hanoch Daum on February 4, 2023, he spoke for the first time in detail about the process and the end of the negotiations. This video interview is the basis of a detailed report in the Berliner Zeitung of February 6, 2023: “Naftali Bennett wanted peace between Ukraine and Russia: who blocked? Israeli ex-premier spoke for the first time about his negotiations with Putin and Zelensky. The ceasefire was reportedly within reach.” (Berliner Zeitung, Feb. 06, 2023).

Soon after the war broke out, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky had asked Bennett to help open a channel of communications with Russian President Vladimir Putin. Putin responded by inviting Bennett to Moscow: “On March 5, 2022, at Putin’s invitation, Bennett had flown to Moscow in a private jet provided by Israeli intelligence. In the conversation in the Kremlin, Putin, Bennett said, had made some substantial concessions, in particular, he had renounced his original wartime goal of demilitarizing Ukraine. … .In return, the Ukrainian president agreed to renounce joining NATO – a position he also repeated publicly a short time later. This removed one of the decisive obstacles to a ceasefire ….”. According to the Berliner Zeitung, other issues, such as the future of the Donbass and Crimea, as well as security guarantees for Ukraine, had also been the subject of intensive talks during these days. (Ibid)

In the interview, Bennett explained further: “I had the impression at the time that both sides were very interested in a ceasefire (…). According to Bennett, a cease-fire was within reach at that time, and both sides were prepared to make considerable concessions…. But Britain and the U.S., in particular, wanted this peace process to end and set their sights on a continuation of the war.” (Ibid)

In early March 2022, President Zelensky contacted not only Naftali Bennett, but also former German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder and asked him to use his close personal ties to Putin to mediate between Ukraine and Russia in hope to find ways to end this war quickly. In an interview published in the weekly edition of the Berliner Zeitung on October 21/22 of this year, Schröder spoke publicly for the first time about his role in the efforts that led to the peace negotiations in Istanbul on March 29, 2022. Like Bennet, also he came to the conclusion that the reason why these peace negotiations were abandoned was because the Americans obstructed them. He said: “At the peace negotiations in March 2022 in Istanbul with Rustem Umerov (then security advisor to Zelensky, now Ukrainian defense minister), the Ukrainians did not agree to peace because they were not allowed to. They first had to ask the Americans about everything they discussed,” and continued: “But at the end (of the peace negotiations) nothing happened. My impression was that nothing could happen because everything else was decided in Washington. That was fatal.”

The Turkish Foreign Minister, Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu, who organized the Istanbul meeting at the time, had previously made similar comments. In an interview with CNN Turk on April 20, 2022, he said: “Some NATO states wanted the Ukraine conflict to continue in order to weaken Russia.”

… WHILE PARALLEL PEACE NEGOTIATIONS BETWEEN UKRAINIAN AND RUSSIAN NEGOCIATORS WERE UNDERWAY

Direct negotiations between a Ukrainian and a Russian delegation had already been underway since late February 2022, and in the third week of March, “only a month after the outbreak of the war, they (had) agreed on the broad outlines of a peace settlement. Ukraine promised not to join NATO and not to allow military bases of foreign powers on its territory, while Russia promised in return to recognize Ukraine’s territorial integrity and to withdraw all Russian occupation troops. Special arrangements were made for the Donbas and Crimea.” (Cf. Michael von der Schulenburg: UN Charter: Negotiations! In: Emma of March 6, 2023)

To further the peace negotiations, the Turkish President offered to host a Ukrainian-Russian peace conference in Istanbul on 29 March, 2002. During the negotiations mediated by Turkish President Erdogan, the Ukrainian delegation presented a position paper, which led to the Istanbul Communiqué. Ukraine’s proposals were translated into a draft treaty by the Russian side.

The text of the Istanbul Communiqué of March 29, 2022 included 10 proposals:

Proposal 1: Ukraine declares itself a neutral state and promises to remain non-aligned and to refrain from developing nuclear weapons in exchange for international legal guarantees. Possible guarantor states include Russia, Britain, China, the United States, France, Turkey, Germany, Canada, Italy, Poland, and Israel, but other states would also be welcome to join the treaty.

Proposal 2: These international security guarantees for Ukraine would not extend to Crimea, Sevastopol, or certain areas in the Donbas. The parties to the treaty would have to define the boundaries of these areas or agree that each party understands these boundaries differently.

Proposal 3: Ukraine commits not to join any military coalition and not to host any foreign military bases or troop contingents. Any international military exercises would be possible only with the consent of the guarantor states. For their part, the Guarantor States confirm their intention to promote Ukraine’s membership in the European Union.

Proposal 4: Ukraine and the Guarantor States agree that (in the event of aggression, armed attack against Ukraine, or military operation against Ukraine) each of the Guarantor States, after urgent and immediate mutual consultations (to be held within three days) on the exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defense (as recognized in Article 51 of the UN Charter), will provide assistance (in response to and on the basis of an official appeal by Ukraine) to Ukraine as a permanently neutral state under attack. Such assistance will be facilitated by the immediate implementation of necessary individual or joint measures, including the closure of Ukrainian airspace, the provision of necessary weapons, and the use of armed force with the aim of restoring and then maintaining the security of Ukraine as a permanently neutral state.

Proposal 5: Any such armed attack (any military operation at all) and any action taken in response will be reported immediately to the UN Security Council. Such action will cease as soon as the UN Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security.

Proposal 6: In order to protect against possible provocations, the agreement will regulate the mechanism of fulfillment of Ukraine’s security guarantees based on the results of consultations between Ukraine and the guarantor states.

Proposal 7: The treaty will apply provisionally from the date of its signature by Ukraine and all or most of the guarantor states.

The treaty will enter into force after (1) Ukraine’s permanent neutral status is approved in a nationwide referendum, (2) the relevant amendments are incorporated into the Ukrainian Constitution, and (3) ratification occurs in the parliaments of Ukraine and the guarantor states.

Proposal 8: The desire of the parties to resolve the issues related to Crimea and Sevastopol will be included in bilateral negotiations between Ukraine and Russia for a period of 15 years. Ukraine and Russia also commit not to resolve these issues by military means and to continue diplomatic resolution efforts.

Proposal 9: The parties continue consultations (involving other guarantor states) to prepare and agree on the provisions of a treaty on security guarantees for Ukraine, ceasefire modalities, withdrawal of troops and other paramilitary formations, and opening and ensuring safely functioning humanitarian corridors on a continuous basis, as well as the exchange of bodies and release of prisoners of war and interned civilians.

Proposal 10: The parties consider it possible to hold a meeting between the presidents of Ukraine and Russia to sign a treaty and/or take political decisions on other unresolved issues.”

APPARENT INITIAL SUPPORT OF MEDIATION EFFORTS BY WESTERN POLITICIANS.

Proof of initial Western politicians’ support for the negotiations emerges from the sequence of telephone calls and meetings during the period from early March to at least mid-March. On March 4, Scholz and Putin spoke on the phone; on March 5, Bennett met Putin in Moscow; on March 6, Bennett and Scholz met in Berlin; on March 7, the United States, the United Kingdom, France, and Germany discussed the issue in a videoconference; on March 8, Macron and Scholz spoke on the phone; on March 10, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Kuleba and Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov met in Ankara; on March 12, Scholz and Zelensky and Scholz and Macron spoke on the phone; and on March 14, Scholz and Erdogan met in Ankara. (Cf. Petra Erler: Re: Review March 2022: Who did not want a quick end to the war in Ukraine, in: “News of a Lighthouse Keeper,” Sept. 1, 2023)

NATO SPECIAL SUMMIT OF MARCH 24, 2022 IN BRUSSELS OPPOSES ALL NEGOCIATIONS

But this initial support quickly turned sour, with NATO opposing any such negotiations before Russia doesn’t withdraws all its troops from Ukrainian territories. This, in fact, killed all negotiations. Michael von der Schulenburg, former UN Assistant Secretary-General (ASG) in UN peace missions, writes that “NATO had already decided at a special summit on March 24, 2022, not to support these peace negotiations (between Ukraine and Russia).” (Cf. Michael von der Schulenburg: UN Charter: Negotiations! In: Emma, March 6, 2023). The US president had flown in especially for this special summit to Brussels. Obviously, peace as negotiated by the Russian and Ukrainian negotiating delegations was not in the interest of some NATO countries.

AT FIRST ZELESKY STICKS TO THE OUTCOME OF THE PEACE NEGOCIATIONS

“As late as March 27, 2022, Zelensky had shown the courage to defend the results of the Ukrainian-Russian peace negotiations in public before Russian journalists – and this despite the fact that NATO had already decided at a special summit on March 24, 2022, not to support these peace negotiations.” (Ibid)

According to von der Schulenburg, the Russian-Ukrainian peace negotiations had been a historically unique feature, made possible only because Russians and Ukrainians knew each other well and “spoke the same language and probably even knew each other personally.” We know of no other war or armed conflict in which the conflict parties agreed on specific peace terms so quickly.

On March 28, Putin, as a sign of goodwill and in support of the peace negotiations, declared readiness to withdraw troops from the Kharkov area and the Kiev area; this apparently occurred even before his public announcement.

THE PEACE NEGOCIATIONS UNRAVEL

On March 29, 2022, the day of the Istanbul meeting, Scholz, Biden, Draghi, Macron, and Johnson again spoke on the phone about the situation in Ukraine. By this time, the stance of key Western allies had apparently hardened. They formulated preconditions for negotiations that were in blatant contrast to Bennett’s and Erdogan’s peace efforts: “The leaders agreed to continue to provide strong support to Ukraine. They again urged Russian President Putin to agree to a ceasefire, to cease all hostilities, to withdraw Russian soldiers from Ukraine and to allow for a diplomatic solution (…)” (Petra Erler: Re: Review March 2022: Who Didn’t Want a Quick End to the War in Ukraine (in “News of a Lighthouse Keeper” September 1, 2023).

The Washington Post reported April 5 that in NATO, continuing the war is preferred to a cease-fire and negotiated settlement: “For some in NATO, it’s better for Ukrainians to keep fighting and dying than to achieve a peace that comes too soon or at too high a price for Kiev and the rest of Europe.” Zelensky, he said, should “keep fighting until Russia is completely defeated.”

BORIS JOHNSON’S MESSAGE TO UKRAINIANS ON APRIL 9, 2022: WE MUST CONTINUE THE WAR

On April 9, 2022, Boris Johnson arrived unannounced in Kiev and told the Ukrainian president that the West was not ready to end the war. According to Britain’s Guardian on April 28, PM Johnson had “instructed” Ukrainian President Zelensky “not to make any concessions to Putin”:

“Ukrainska Pravda” reported on this in detail in two articles on May 5, 2022:

“No sooner had the Ukrainian negotiators and Abramovich/Medinsky agreed in broad terms on the structure of a possible future agreement after the Istanbul results than British Prime Minister Boris Johnson appeared in Kiev almost without warning.

Johnson brought two simple messages with him to Kiev. The first is that Putin is a war criminal; he should be pressured, not negotiated with. The second is that even if Ukraine is willing to sign some agreements with Putin on guarantees, but that the collective West is not. We can sign [an agreement] with you [Ukraine], but not with him. He will screw everyone over anyway,” one of Selensky’s close associates summed up the essence of Johnson’s visit. There is much more behind this visit and Johnson’s words than just reluctance to engage in agreements with Russia. Johnson took the position that the collective West, which as recently as February had suggested that Zelensky should surrender and flee, now feels that Putin is not really as powerful as they had previously imagined. Moreover, there is an opportunity to put pressure on him. And the West wants to take it.”

The Neue Züricher Zeitung (NZZ) reported on April 12 that the British government under Johnson is counting on a Ukrainian military victory. Conservative Member of the House of Commons Alicia Kearns said, “We’d rather arm the Ukrainians to the teeth than give Putin a success.” British Foreign Secretary (and later Prime Minister) Liz Truss professed in a keynote speech that “victory for Ukraine (…) is a strategic imperative for us all and therefore military support must be massively expanded”. Guardian columnist Simon Jenkins warned: “Liz Truss risks inflaming the war in Ukraine for her own ambitions.” This, he said, was probably the first Tory election campaign “to be fought on Russia’s borders.” Johnson and Truss wanted Zelensky “to keep fighting until Russia is completely defeated. They need a triumph in their proxy war. In the meantime, anyone who disagrees with them can be dismissed as a weakling, a coward, or a Putin supporter. That this conflict is being exploited by Britain for a sleazy upcoming leadership contest is sickening.”

Following his second visit to Kiev on April 25, 2022, U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said the U.S. wants to use the opportunity to permanently weaken Russia militarily and economically in the wake of the Ukraine war. According to the New York Times, the U.S. government is no longer concerned with a fight over control of Ukraine, but with a fight against Moscow in the wake of a new Cold War.

At the April 26, 2022, meeting of defense ministers from NATO members and other countries convened by Austin in Ramstein, Rhineland-Palatinate/ Germany, the Pentagon chief declared the military victory of Ukraine as a strategic goal.

The American magazine “Responsible Statecraft,” wrote on September 2, 2022:

“Did Boris Johnson help prevent a peace deal in Ukraine? According to a recent article in Foreign Affairs, Kiev and Moscow may have reached a tentative agreement to end the war as early as April. According to several former senior U.S. officials we spoke with, Russian and Ukrainian negotiators appeared to have tentatively agreed on the outlines of a negotiated interim solution in March 2022,” write Fiona Hill and Angela Stent. “Russia would retreat to its Feb. 23 position, when it controlled part of the Donbas region and all of Crimea, and in return Ukraine would promise not to seek NATO membership and instead receive security guarantees from a number of countries. The decision to let the deal fail coincided with Johnson’s visit to Kiev in April, during which he urged Ukrainian President Zelenskiy to break off talks with Russia for two main reasons: Putin is impossible to negotiate with, and the West is not ready for an end to the war.

In his article, the authors asked questions that have become increasingly important as the war has progressed:

“This apparent revelation raises some important questions: Why did Western leaders want to prevent Kiev from signing what appeared to be a good negotiating deal with Moscow? Do they view the conflict as a proxy war with Russia? And most importantly, what would it take to return to a negotiated outcome?”

In his announcement of the partial mobilization, Putin stated on September 21, 2022:

“I would like to make this public for the first time today. After the start of the special military operation, especially after the talks in Istanbul, the Kiev representatives expressed quite positive views on our proposals. These proposals were mainly about ensuring Russia’s security and interests. But a peaceful solution obviously did not suit the West, which is why Kiev, after agreeing on some compromises, was actually ordered to nullify all these agreements.”

On the occasion of the visit of an African peace delegation on June 17, 2023, Putin demonstratively showed the agreement accepted and initialed in Istanbul ad referendum to the cameras.

CONCLUSION: MISSED OPPORTUNITY

Based on the publicly available reports and documents, it is not only plain that there was a serious willingness to negotiate on the part of both Ukraine and Russia in March 2022. Apparently, the negotiating parties even agreed on a draft treaty ad referendum. Zelensky and Putin were ready for a bilateral meeting to finalize the outcome of the negotiations. Fact is that the main results of the negotiations were based on a proposal by Ukraine, and Zelenskyy courageously supported them in an interview with Russian journalists on March 27, 2022, even after NATO decided against these peace negotiations. Zelensky had already expressed similar support beforehand in a sign that proves that the intended outcome of the Istanbul negotiations certainly corresponded to Ukrainian interests. This makes the Western intervention, which prevented an early end to the war, even more disastrous for Ukraine. Russia’s responsibility for the attack, which was contrary to international law, is not relativized by the fact that responsibility for the grave consequences that Ukraine’s Western supporters that ensued must also be attributed to the states that demanded the continuation of the war. The war has now reached a stage where further dangerous escalation and an expansion of hostilities can only be prevented by a cease-fire. It may now be the last time that a peaceful resolution through negotiations could be achieved. There are peace proposals from China, the African Union, Brazil, Mexico, Indonesia, and a proposal developed at the invitation of the Vatican as early as June 2022. On 3 October this year, we presented the German Government our own peace proposal that tried to incorporate all other peace proposals made earlier. See Ending the war by a negotiated peace – Legitimate self-defense and the quest for a just and lasting peace are not contradictory HERE.

Since the failed Istanbul negotiations The course of the war and the current extremely critical timing should be reason enough for a responsible world community and UN member states to rethink and press for a ceasefire and peace negotiations.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: anotherrussianlie; bidencrimefamily; bogusnonsense; crazylarryjohnson; desperate; larouche; larryjohndon; larryjohnson; nigerflap; plamenamegame; putinsblunder; vips; war
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The truth was known to a few of us, the collective West narrative was false, a lie…..senile Joe and his western MSM once again bamboozled many ignorant Americans……..war cheerleaders, do realize you lose, as should be.

The shame is this Ukie war has initiated the upcoming “ irrelevance “ of the US in the world…..welcome to the new world…..the decline of the West. Thanks Joe ( and war cheerleaders).

1 posted on 11/17/2023 5:55:10 PM PST by delta7
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To: delta7

2 posted on 11/17/2023 5:56:54 PM PST by NoLibZone (We have the nation we deserve The bad guys are willing to protest and riot while we email.)
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To: delta7

IATAN - In After The Angry Neocons


3 posted on 11/17/2023 6:17:35 PM PST by kiryandil (China Joe and Paycheck Hunter - the Chink in America's defenses)
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To: delta7

Complete nonsense: the cowards in DC were prepared to write-off Ukraine completely— that’s why they offered Zelensky a ride out shortly after the war started.


4 posted on 11/17/2023 6:24:34 PM PST by pierrem15 ("Massacrez-les, car le seigneur connait les siens" )
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To: delta7

There will never be peace with Russia until Russia is defeated and defeated completely. They are a ruthless predatory warmongering people who can only change by going through the catharsis of defeat like Nazi Germany and Japan did.


5 posted on 11/17/2023 6:32:06 PM PST by amnestynone (We are asked by people who do not tolerate us to tolerate the intolerable in the name of tolerance.)
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To: delta7

There goes the Zeeper narrative...

6 posted on 11/17/2023 6:35:54 PM PST by cabojoe ( 🇺🇸 Stop Ukie censorship. Release Gonzalo Lira)
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To: pierrem15
Uh huh. Whatever.

7 posted on 11/17/2023 6:40:35 PM PST by Governor Dinwiddie (LORD, grant thy people grace to withstand the temptations of the world, the flesh, and the devil.)
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To: delta7
So what Russian military disaster has prompted this round of posting stories from Russian propagandists?

Do you think the discovery of Russian atrocities against Ukrainian civilians at that time might have had something to do with the possibility of a peace deal?

8 posted on 11/17/2023 6:47:53 PM PST by freeandfreezing
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To: delta7
"Putin ordered the withdrawal of Russian forces starting on April 1, 2022 as a good faith gesture"

Nonsense. The Russians only withdrew from areas where their troops were unable to maintain their positions due to the loss of logistical support routes. And they were driven out, they didn't just get up and leave.

This is the kind of ridiculous Russian propaganda that only poorly informed Russians fall for.

9 posted on 11/17/2023 6:51:24 PM PST by freeandfreezing
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To: pierrem15
Lol, this theater? You know he’s an actor reading from a script, right? Seriously… look it up. He stared in a Ukraine sit-com: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servant_of_the_People_(2015_TV_series)


IMG-4735

10 posted on 11/17/2023 6:56:08 PM PST by CapandBall
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To: delta7

TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS

FREE photo hosting by Host Pic.Org - Free Image Picture Photo Hosting

Neither your headline nor your post deserve any more attention than anyone else's, and most of the rest have the common courtesy not to shout for no reason.

11 posted on 11/17/2023 7:03:37 PM PST by Paal Gulli
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To: freeandfreezing
So what Russian military disaster has prompted this round of posting stories from Russian propagandists?

It's almost over. We're in the how will Ukraine manage its defeat stage. Your Ukraine response was as bad as COVID response. Just total incompetence.

12 posted on 11/17/2023 7:03:45 PM PST by Right_Wing_Madman
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To: delta7

This could have been done and over a year ago. But Biden still had money to launder.


13 posted on 11/17/2023 7:28:33 PM PST by roving (👌⚓Deplorable Listless Vessel with Trumpitist who looks Trumpish)
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To: NoLibZone

Bkmk


14 posted on 11/17/2023 7:41:35 PM PST by sauropod (The obedient always think of themselves as virtuous rather than cowardly.)
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To: delta7
April 1, 2022 — Putin orders Russian troops to initiate withdrawal from Kiev and Kharkiv in show of good faith in accordance with the armistice agreed to in Istanbul.

It wasn't a retreat.

15 posted on 11/17/2023 7:47:01 PM PST by McGruff (Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f*** things up - Barack Obama)
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To: Paal Gulli

Follow the link, he merely cut and pasted the headline as it was.


16 posted on 11/17/2023 7:47:06 PM PST by cabojoe ( 🇺🇸 Stop Ukie censorship. Release Gonzalo Lira)
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To: delta7

Larry Johnson wouldn’t know truth if it slapped him upside the head.

Since at least 1999, the twat has been delusionally downplaying the threat of Islamic terrorism. In 1999 on PBS he claimed that the threat posed by Osama bin Laden was overblown. Now, that’s a year after al Qaeda bombed two US embassies and killed hundreds. That’s a year before al Qaeda blew a hole in the side of the USS Cole and half a year before they almost blew a hole in the hull of the USS The Sullivans. He called warnings about the rising threat of Islamism and al Qaeda “crying wolf.”

The dumbass even played down the Islamist threat a couple months before 911 in an article for the NY Times - July 10, 2001:

“...Americans are bedeviled by fantasies about terrorism. They seem to believe that terrorism is the greatest threat to the United States .... they almost certainly have the impression that extremist Islamic groups cause most terrorism .... None of these beliefs are based in fact.”

Larry is also knoen as a promoter of a scumbag named Joseph Wilson, the late former ambassador to Gabon, known for his tea-swilling vacation in Niger trying to run interference for Saddam Hussein, cuddling up to Hillary Clinton’s uranium mine ambitions, and for being the spouse of the now also deceased silly aas Global Zero promoter Valerie Plame, who we were told was a super dooper “deep cover” pregnant CIA spy (seeking to run for office out west).

Now, none of this foreign agentlike behavior on the part of Larry should surprise us, since he has been a writer blowing snow for Russia Today as well as getting published in the NyTimes.... he runs the same circles as Ray McGovern’s VIPS.


17 posted on 11/17/2023 8:17:22 PM PST by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge)
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To: piasa

Here’s the version that Larry Johnson got probably got this article from: https://braveneweurope.com/michael-von-der-schulenburg-hajo-funke-harald-kujat-peace-for-ukraine Try to find something wrong with these authors...


18 posted on 11/17/2023 8:52:51 PM PST by cabojoe ( 🇺🇸 Stop Ukie censorship. Release Gonzalo Lira)
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To: amnestynone

“There will never be peace with Russia until Russia is defeated and defeated completely. They are a ruthless predatory warmongering people who can only change by going through the catharsis of defeat like Nazi Germany and Japan did.”

Oh yeah? You and what army. Ukraine can’t do it. That means NATO (the USA). Take your warmongering elsewhere.


19 posted on 11/17/2023 9:29:47 PM PST by rxh4n1
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To: piasa
Larry Johnson wouldn’t know truth if it slapped him upside the head.

How long have you been under a rock? We've known since May 2022 that Boris Johnson killed the Istanbul peace deal when he met with Zelensky in April.

Boris Johnson Pressured Zelenskyy to Ditch Peace Talks With Russia: Ukrainian Paper May 06, 2022

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/05/06/boris-johnson-pressured-zelenskyy-ditch-peace-talks-russia-ukrainian-paper

Even famed neocon, Fiona Hill, admitted that Joe Biden and Boris Johnson undermined the deal.

The World Putin Wants: How Distortions About the Past Feed Delusions About the Future August 25, 2022.

"in April 2022, Russian and Ukrainian negotiators appeared to have tentatively agreed on the outlines of a negotiated interim settlement"

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/russian-federation/world-putin-wants-fiona-hill-angela-stent

Larry Johnson cites the New Brave Europe article, published a week ago, that covers the sabotage timeline in previously unseen detail.

20 posted on 11/17/2023 9:40:58 PM PST by Right_Wing_Madman
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