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To: ChicagoConservative27

The world is a lot different today from when the Pope could draw a line on a map and say what part of South America belongs to Portugal and what part belongs to Spain.

Supposedly, the lines separating one from another country today were set a long time ago. But, were they?

In the case of East Timor, a small Catholic country (formerly a Portuguese colony), a line got erased upon an invasion by Indonesia. Then, during a time of turmoil in Indonesia, the line got put back. In the case of East Timor, an identifiable people in an identifiable place eventually determined the outcome.

In the case of Ukraine, arguments could be made that its borders were arbitrarily set by Stalin for nefarious purposes. Stalin, it could be said, moved the Donbas region into Ukraine to increase Russian influence in that SSR. At the time, this was not a big deal because Ukraine was itself an SSR within the USSR.

Then, the people of this region became trapped inside Ukraine upon the shift of the country to the west. Indeed, in elections prior to 2014, Russian-speakers in eastern Ukraine voted very differently from Ukrainian-speakers in western Ukraine.

But, instead of negotiations - and perhaps a plebiscite under international supervision - we got a war. What else would you expect from Putin?

The Pope COULD HAVE spoken to the possibility of peaceful resolution of the Ukraine-Russia border, one that respected the desires of the people in eastern Ukraine, and also of water rights needed by Crimea whether an autonomous republic in either larger country. But, no, the Pope steered clear.

To my knowledge, only Elon Musk tried to approach this matter with fairness to the people involved.

A just resolution would allow the people in the Donbas and possibly other places to decide with which larger country they wanted to affiliate, with those in the minority able to relocate (perhaps with some assistance). Think of the partition of India. Better such a thing than war.

Once we get to a peaceful resolution, the healing process can begin. Except now, with these invasions combined with WWII and the starvation in Ukraine during the Great Soviet Famine prior to WWII, this process will take vary long time.

Ukraine could have been a link between the east and west in Europe. Instead, Russia will continue to evolve into Big North Korea.


12 posted on 03/10/2024 10:30:55 AM PDT by Redmen4ever
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To: Redmen4ever
In the case of Ukraine, arguments could be made that its borders were arbitrarily set by Stalin for nefarious purposes. Stalin, it could be said, moved the Donbas region into Ukraine to increase Russian influence in that SSR. At the time, this was not a big deal because Ukraine was itself an SSR within the USSR.

Actually Stalin took away parts


26 posted on 03/11/2024 4:40:34 AM PDT by Cronos (I identify as an ambulance, my pronounces are wee/woo)
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To: Redmen4ever
Indeed, in elections prior to 2014, Russian-speakers in eastern Ukraine voted very differently from Ukrainian-speakers in western Ukraine.

While this is roughly true, it is simplistic - there are Russian native speakers who consider themselves Ukrainian -- Zelenskyy is one of those


27 posted on 03/11/2024 4:41:52 AM PDT by Cronos (I identify as an ambulance, my pronounces are wee/woo)
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To: Redmen4ever
But, instead of negotiations - and perhaps a plebiscite under international supervision - we got a war. What else would you expect from Putin?

Speaking as a non-Pole who has lived in Poland since 2010 and my observations of ukrainians - Muscowy had already "soft power conquered" them before 2014.

Before 2014 most Ukrainians were pretty "meh" about a sense of nationhood.

Since 2022 this has completely changed.

If Pootie had not invaded, then the Ukrainians would have been assimilated into Muscowy without a shot being fired.

29 posted on 03/11/2024 4:44:58 AM PDT by Cronos (I identify as an ambulance, my pronounces are wee/woo)
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