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To: RandFan

..........the times they are achanging..................

Read about the 24 hours before Fort Sumter. The Confederate generals and the Union generals were messaging back and forth in that timeframe and it (Ft. Sumter) was not suppose to happen.

I think ALL the Democrats and half the republicans (aka The Uni Party) simply believe the country’s collapse is “not suppose to happen”. Neither was Ft. Sumter.


19 posted on 04/03/2024 5:12:35 PM PDT by Cen-Tejas
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To: Cen-Tejas

How many of the surviving old southern families wished that the generals had stayed in charge and defused Lincoln’s setup for an “attack” by hotheads in artillery. It should be noted that Beauregard gave the OK for the artillery to fire away.

There was every possibility from people who knew back then, for a deal to be worked out. The people at the top economically were already doomed from cotton exports to England, because England already had other sources and began moving their Manchester mills. Things were not so rapidly known back then—it took the news a long time to travel across the Atlantic. The deal would have purchased the freedom and created a whole new demographic— without the terrible death and destruction of over 700K American lives. The reconciliation showed the re-sworn loyalty of the breakaway states (including the border states, KY, MO,Kansas etc.)


31 posted on 04/03/2024 6:22:24 PM PDT by John S Mosby (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: Cen-Tejas
“Read about the 24 hours before Fort Sumter. The Confederate generals and the Union generals were messaging back and forth in that timeframe and it (Ft. Sumter) was not suppose to happen.”

It was Lincoln's skillful use of the Navy that caused the Gulf of Tokin Incident.

I mean the Fort Sumter Incident.

33 posted on 04/03/2024 6:41:56 PM PDT by jeffersondem
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To: Cen-Tejas; RandFan; John S Mosby; jeffersondem
Read about the 24 hours before Fort Sumter. The Confederate generals and the Union generals were messaging back and forth in that timeframe and it (Ft. Sumter) was not suppose to happen

Seward messaged Campbell enigmatically "Faith as to Sumter fully kept; wait and see...."

Notably, Seward had Lincoln sign orders for a Lieutenant to relieve the Captain on the flagship, the Powhatan, deliberately withholding knowledge of same from the Secretary of the Navy. The Lieutenant set got underway with the flagship, loaded up with British coal, painted out the name of the ship, opened his orders at sea, meandered about the Atlantic and proceeded to Florida. Seward/Lincoln had assured that the mission to Sumter would not land troops; those were aboard the Powhatan. The Confederates knew that practically the entire U.S. Navy had been sent their way, and did not know about the subterfuge with the Powhatan.

The Life of William H. Seward, 2 Volumes
by Frederic Bancroft
Harper and Brothers, Publishers
1900

Volume 1

Volume 2

Volume 2, Chapter XXIX is "Seward's Struggle for Supremacy" and goes into the leadup and then expeditions to Sumter (South Carolina) and Pickens (Florida).

At page 140-41 [pp. 151-2 of the PDF file] we have Seward's famous message to the Confederate commissioners, "Faith as to Sumter fully kept; wait and see...."

During the first days of April Seward's communi­cations with the Confederate commissioners came to a climax. After April 1st the reports that hostile move­ments were preparing grew more positive from day to day. On the 4th the commissioners credited the rumor that the United States intended to resist the acquisition of Santo Domingo by Spain. The next day they sus­pected that this might be a ruse. By the evening of the 6th they thought the armaments were to be used against Fort Pickens, and perhaps against Sumter. [1] Early the following (Sunday) morning Campbell was again called in. He then sent a note to Seward, stat­ing that various reports had caused the commissioners "anxiety and concern for two or three days"; that he had repeated to them the assurances that the adminis­tration would give notice to Governor Pickens before attempting to supply Sumter, and that he (Campbell) "should have notice whenever any measure changing the existing status prejudicially to the Confederate States is contemplated as respects Fort Pickens." He concluded with these sentences: "I do not experience the same anxiety or concern as they express. But if I have said more than I am authorized, I pray that you will advise me." [2] To this inquiry Seward answered, without date or signature: "Faith as to Sumter fully kept; wait and see; other suggestions received, and will be respectfully considered." [3] Campbell understood this to mean that Governor Pickens should have notice before an attempt should be made to supply Sumter, but that the assurances as to Fort Pickens were no longer to be depended on.

Sufficient had been learned to convince the commissioners that a "hostile movement" was on foot and that an expedition had sailed against the Confederate States.

-----

[1] Telegrams to Toombs of the dates mentioned.

[2] This is quoted from the copy preserved by the commissioners.

[3] Crawford's Genesis, etc., 840. The copy that the commissioners took of Campbell's letter, to which this was a reply, contains nothing to call forth the last eight words. It seems likely that after the commission's copy of Campbell's note was made, he added his offer to go to Montgomery, to which Crawford refers (ibid.), and to which Seward's eight words were probably an answer.


42 posted on 04/03/2024 9:33:51 PM PDT by woodpusher
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