Why Iran Has Decided To Arm Russia, And The Price To Pay

Worldcrunch ^

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Thanks!!
I’m glad you are enjoying the
Zeeper Folloes Pinglist memes so much!

[higgmeister]

Sounds right to me.   We don't own Eastern Europe.

During the New Jewel Movement, the Soviet Union tried to make the island of Grenada to function as a Soviet base, and also by getting supplies from Cuba. In October 1983, during the U.S. invasion of Grenada, U.S. President Ronald Reagan maintained that US Marines arrived on the island of Grenada, which was considered a Soviet-Cuban ally that would export communist revolution throughout the Caribbean. In November, at a joint hearing of Congressional Subcommittee, it was told that Grenada could be used as a staging area for subversion of the nearby countries, for intersection of shipping lanes, and for the transit of troops and supplies from Cuba to Africa, and from Eastern Europe and Libya to Central America. In December, the State Department published a preliminary report on Grenada, in which was claimed as an "Island of Soviet Internationalism". When the US Marines landed on the island, they discovered a large amount of documents, which included agreements between the Soviet Government, and the New Jewel Movement, recorded minutes of the Committee meetings, and reports from the Grenadian embassy in Moscow.[2]

Ukraine to the Soviet Union (Russia) is no different than Grenada was to the USA.   We muscled into Grenada the same as Russia muscled into Ukraine, and rightly so on both counts.

We invaded Grenada because Americans were at risk of harm and Russia entered Ukraine because Russians were at risk of harm.

We have no right or obligation to intrude in Russia's national security.

If you want to fight Russia, go to Ukraine.   We have no dog in this hunt.   You can cry until the cows come.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenada%E2%80%93Soviet_Union_relations

[USA-FRANCE]

To: bimboeruptioon

I started by asking you a question.
As soon as you answer my question then I’ll answer yours. Very fair right?

So again here is my question to you:

Do you condemn the fact that Russia-Iran/Hamas-North Korea are deeply in bed together as allies... working together against our Israeli and/or Ukrainian allies as we speak? Again, do you condemn that?

I’m sure you will be incapable of answering. Because.... you are one of them.
It’s as simple as that.

Good luck!

[USA-FRANCE]

To: bimboeruptioon

I started by asking you a question.
As soon as you answer my question then I’ll answer yours. Very fair right?

“I support Israel.”

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

No, you are NOT supporting Israel.
Proof: You are incapable of condemning the alliance that attacked Israel !!

Again... Iran is Russia’s number one military ally, and Hamas is welcomed in their warm bed.

Putin ‘forming axis of terror’ as he welcomes Hamas and Iran to Moscow
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/26/putin-forming-axis-of-terror-welcomes-hamas-iran-moscow/

So again here is my question to you:

Do you condemn the fact that Russia-Iran/Hamas-North Korea are deeply in bed together as allies... working together against our Israeli and/or Ukrainian allies as we speak?

[tennmountainman]

“Do you condemn the fact that Russia-Iran/Hamas-North Korea are deeply in bed together as allies”

I do French Surrender Monkey.

[USA-FRANCE]

higgmeister said:
“Sounds right to me. We don’t own Eastern Europe.”

Answer by U-F:
Oh... but we “do own” the Middle East which Israel is part of then, hm...?
I love your extravagant double standards.

higgmeister said:
Ukraine to the Soviet Union (Russia) is no different than Grenada was to the USA.

Answer by U-F:
Cuba invaded Grenada, remember that!?
THAT was the SOLE reason that prompted the USA to react by liberating Grenada from the pro-Russian Cuban soldiers. America never ANNEXED Grenada! You do know that I hope?
And when it comes to Ukraine, it never invaded Russia. Russia viciously invaded Ukraine even though Russia had previously officially recognized Ukraine’s sovereignty and inviolability of its borders.
And not only did Russia invade, it went so far as to ANNEX 4 entire Ukrainian regions, making them Russian territory!
America never made Grenada an American territory. Right?
America never made Iraq, Vietnam, Afghanistan American territories. Right?
America never even thought of ANNEXING those countries.

You see the difference now between Russia and America? Its MASSIVE.

higgmeister said:
We muscled into Grenada the same as Russia muscled into Ukraine, and rightly so on both counts.

Answer by U-F:
As I explained above, Russia was never attacked by Ukraine!
So why on earth would Russia feel the need “muscle its way” into Ukraine, even trying to take the Capital Kiev in 2022??
Do I have to remind you that Russia actually stole all of Crimea from Ukraine in 2014 already - wasn’t that enough for them?! Russia got away with it at that time. If the world had reacted the first time, Russia would never have tried to repeat its brutality in 2022.
Thats the problem with Chamberlainism... we were all weak, it incited Russia to continue its imperialist policies of invading AND ANNEXING.

[USA-FRANCE]

So you DO condemn the Russia-Iran/Hamas-North Korea Alliance!
Thank God! Thus, since you can’t be on both sides at the same time, this means you support Ukraine’s right to remain a sovereign nation , free from Russia’s massacres, and in respect of Ukraine’s BORDERS.

We conservatives do like the philosophy of respecting BORDERS, don’t we?
We despise border-violators.

[higgmeister]

U-F, très approprié.

[Does so]

Such photos can be seen on US-based websites, which doesn’t make the entire US “NAZIs”.

[tennmountainman]

I do not support corrupt YouCrayne. Nor do I support Corrupt Ruzzia.

[Navy Patriot]

Such photos can be seen on US-based websites, which doesn’t make the entire US “NAZIs”.

No, in the US, it's just the Democrats, Deep Swamp and Zeepers.

[BroJoeK]

who_would_fardels_bear to pox #15: "Russia and China always butt buddies?
Have you heard of someone named Richard Nixon?"

pox #16: "Yes, China, Russia, Iran and NK have always been butt buddies.
Play semantics all you want."

who_would_fardels_bear: "Live in your fantasy world devoid of facts all you want."

Hostilities between CCP China and the old Soviet Union peaked in the late 1960s and 1970s, with armed conflict in 1969 over a border dispute.
China also opposed the Soviet Union's invasion of Afghanistan from 1979 to 1989.

Since the end of the Afghan War in 1989 and the USSR collapse in 1991, China-Russia relations have steadily improved and are today as close as they ever were, even in the early days of the 1950s.

Sometimes we've seen it claimed that a US "wedge strategy" has helped to drive Russia and China apart in the past, that this was a good thing and that we should continue to apply a "wedge strategy" in today's geopolitical environment.

So, what exactly would such a "wedge strategy" look like?
Well... typically suggestions include:

1. Let's give Russia what it wants in Ukraine and

2. Let's give CCP China what it wants in Taiwan.

Oh yeah! That's a brilliant strategy, certain to drive Russia and China apart.
What could possibly go wrong?

[BroJoeK]

higgmeister: "Ukraine to the Soviet Union (Russia) is no different than Grenada was to the USA.
We muscled into Grenada the same as Russia muscled into Ukraine, and rightly so on both counts.
We invaded Grenada because Americans were at risk of harm and Russia entered Ukraine because Russians were at risk of harm."

US forces in Grenada, 1983:

Surely you are not blind to the less-than-subtle distinctions between Grenada and Ukraine?

In Grenada, in October 1983:

1. In 1979, the democratically elected (in 1976) government had been overthrown in a Communist coup -- by the NJM, allied to Cuba and Russia.
   In October 1983, that communist government was overthrown, and its Prime Minister Bishop murdered, along with several other leaders, by even more radical Communists within the NJM.

   Grenada today:

   

2. The Communist NJM had brought in nearly 1,000 Cuban troops plus thousands of Soviet weapons to support Grenada's own military forces.

3. The 9,000-foot-long Point Salines Airport runway, under construction by Cubans, was seen as a strategic threat, as was danger to American civilians, mainly medical students, living in Grenada.

4. The US invasion lasted about a month and resulted in circa 1,300 total casualties among US, Grenadian, Cuban & Soviet forces, after which American military withdrew.

5. A new democratically elected government took office in Grenada in 1984.
   Grenada has held regular parliamentary elections every five years since.
   Today Grenada is independent, peaceful, prosperous and democratic.

Yanukovych and Putin:

By sharp contrast, in Ukraine, beginning in 2014:

1. In February 2014, Ukraine's parliament constitutionally impeached and removed Ukraine's pro-Russia President Yanukovych from office by a vote of 328 to 0.
   An interim government was appointed, and new elections held three months later.

2. Ukraine's pro-Russia ex-president Yanukovych then treasonously requested Russian military forces "to establish legitimacy, peace, law and order, stability and defending the people of Ukraine".
   Vladimir Putin used that as his pretext to invade and immediately annex Crimea, in March 2014.

3. At the same time Russians encouraged and supported separatists in the Donbas to wage war on their own government, with Russians supplying logistics plus thousands of "little green men".

   Russia's "Little Green Men" in Ukraine:

   

4. In time, Russia also claimed to annex the Donbas oblasts and used the conflict there as part of Russia's pretext for invading all of Ukraine in February 2022.

5. Russians have conducted "show elections", equivalent to "show trials" in Russian occupied regions of Ukraine, but none that are recognized as legitimate by any international entities.

6. No serious country has recognized Russia's claimed annexations of any Ukrainian territories.

7. The total of casualties in Russia's now 10 year long invasion of Ukraine is well over 500,000 by any estimates.

Bottom line: however much you might want to criticize America's invasion of Grenada, we soon left Grenada, and in much better condition than we found it.
By stark contrast, Russia's invasion of and attempted annexations of Ukrainian territories have brought only death, injuries, displacements and destruction to millions, including hundreds of thousands of Russians themselves.

It's 100% crazy.

Ukraine today:

[BroJoeK]

PGR88 to USA-FRANCE: "Your list of mortal enemies of the USA and wars we absolutely must engage in grows longer every day.
Its time to call bulls** on you and your ilk"

Neville Chamberlain with "Peace for Our Time":

Call it whatever name you wish, but facts remain facts nonetheless.

During the Second World War our mortal enemies were the Axis Powers, primarily Germany, Italy and Japan.
The reason the Axis grew to become mortal enemies requiring the total combined efforts of every major country on earth to finally defeat, one reason is because we never tried to stop them when they were relatively minor powers.

This is the "Broken Windows Theory" of policing applied to international relations.

Before Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, there was a long list of invaded countries which Americans and others said were "not our war".
Here are some of them:

1. China (1931 invaded by Japan)
2. Ethiopia (1935 invaded by Italy)
3. the Rhineland (1936),
4. Austria (1938),
5. Czechoslovakia (1939),
6. Poland (1939),
7. Albania (1939 invaded by Italy)
8. Denmark & Norway (1940)
9. Belgium & Netherlands (1940),
10. France (1940),
11. Libia and Egypt (1940 invaded by Italy)
12. Indochina (1940 invaded by Japan)
13. Yugoslavia & Greece (1941)

That's why one of the Lessons of History, taught to every schoolchild after 1945, was that we have to stop these wannabe empire builders while they are still small and defeatable, not wait until they've grown into world-class monsters.

Now suddenly we've forgotten the lessons and are returning to the policies which caused WWII in the first place.

What could possibly go wrong?

A new Axis of Evil Dictators:

Democracy Index: red/brown/black are dictatorships:

[higgmeister]

Yes, but Russia, Russia, Russia!   We have heard your propaganda ad nauseam.   Ukraine is not our concern in any way, shape or form.   Our Neocons created this proxy war for their own interests.   Just cut it out.

[BroJoeK]

higgmeister: "Yes, but Russia, Russia, Russia!"

No, it's not just "Russia, Russia, Russia", it's Russia, China, NoKo, Iran and others, a new Axis of Evil Dictators.
Of course you can stick your head in the sand and ignore them all you wish, but they are still dictators, still empire builders and still very evil.

higgmeister: "We have heard your propaganda ad nauseam."

No, you've obviously not listened to anything except pro-Russian propaganda lies, and that is what's making you sick.

higgmeister: "Ukraine is not our concern in any way, shape or form."

Ukraine is absolutely America's concern in several ways, including:

1. Morally: to claim "neutrality" in the face of oppression is to support the oppressor.

2. Legally: Peace, prosperity and justice on the planet depends on everyone obeying international laws & rules.
   When laws are violated with impunity, chaos, wars and tyranny are the result.

3. Strategically: Evil empires (i.e., USSR) feed on success, they are destroyed by defeats and even containment.
   Russia has grown stronger and bolder from its invasions of Chechnya, Georgia, Syria and Ukraine.
   Russian aggressions have already inspired Iran to attack Israel, and China to increase its preparations to assault Taiwan.
   Our weaknesses inspire aggressions from evil dictators.

4. Russia's threat to NATO and EU: If Vlad the Invader succeeds in Ukraine, it will add nearly 1/3 to Russia's population and at least 10% to Russia's GDP, most especially with Ukraine's military capabilities.
   That will make Russia's threats to NATO countries increasingly difficult to resist.

   

5. Democracy vs. Dictators: The world is full of dictators eager to do what dictators do -- expand their empires.
   Increasing successes of dictators push weaker democracies towards more authoritarian regimes, each more hostile to Americans and America's interests in the world.

higgmeister: "Our Neocons created this proxy war for their own interests."

That is a 100% Russian propaganda lie, straight from the disinformation sewer pipes of the Kremlin's Ministry for Agitation and Propagnada.
And you well know it, but still repeat it endlessly anyway.

higgmeister: "Just cut it out."

Obviously, you are here speaking of yourself.

This is what happens when countries put their heads firmly in the sand:

[USA-FRANCE]

“Neville Chamberlain with “Peace for Our Time”.”

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hitler’s initial success was based on useful idiots like Chamberlain.

It’s crazy, in this day an age, that we still have a few congressmen burying their heads deep down in the sand at best... or drowning in pure infantile naivety at worst.
We have chamberlainoïds among us. They are not many, but still... they are detectable. That is sad.

One thing is certain:

“The only thing needed for Evil to succeed, is for good men to do nothing.”

[higgmeister]

I haven't believed one minute of Russian propaganda, the same as Ukrainian propaganda.   Our enemies are China, Socialist Democrats and radical Islam of all shapes, stripes and sizes.   We share occupation of the ISS with Russia even using their Soyuz to get there.   You Zeepers are nutso!

[Forward the Light Brigade]

Evil exists as long as people do not recognize it as evil. Evil disguises itself with terms like “Its for the Children,” or “Its to save the environment.” “Save the whales.” These are toxic masks to cover evil plans. Russia and Iran are allies like England and America. add China and North Korea to the list and you have a powerful block. Russian client state Syria and Yemen makes this a force to be reckoned with.
When war comes—the Big One—all these states hope to be on the winning side. This Axis will not make the same mistakes as the last one.

[USA-FRANCE]

“Russia and Iran are allies like England and America. add China and North Korea to the list and you have a powerful block. Russian client state Syria and Yemen makes this a force to be reckoned with.
When war comes—the Big One—all these states hope to be on the winning side. This Axis will not make the same mistakes as the last one”

>>>>>>>>>>>

I agree with your analysis.
That axis of evil will probably try to not make the same mistakes as Hitler did. Even though it seems like Russia has done massive mistakes in Ukraine. After 2 years of war, Russia is just taking a few yards here and there.
Ukraine even managed to take back 47% of what Russia had initially stolen from them.

Concerning the West VS the Axis of Evil:
One thing to add in the equation this time though (something that Hitler didn’t have) is that both sides have nuclear weapons.

I don’t believe anyone will use them in any way.
The Big One as you say will be a kind of conventional war, and much less intense compared to WW2.

We shall see...